Hindutva-ization/Gujarat-ization(or whatever it means) of my India..

Edited to add :This is not a post about Manglore pub attack.

Yeah,I am adding more to those endless posts on ‘Holy people preserving Indian culture’ floating around in blogoshpere.My friends have already put it in best words,that I have hardly anything better to say.I support you in the fight of individual freedom.Lets not make our nation another Saudi or Afghan..

Amrutha has a post on the topic,but the link she provided seemed disturbing.The author of that article justifies this incident as,‘The Rama Sainiks have done a good job in saving Hindu girls.  I am not saying this.  The masses in Mangalore stand by these so-called hooligans because they want to protect their women from the clutches of the oh-so-peaceful Islamic jehadis ” I was wondering when and how did islam or jiahdist or terrorism come in the frame..Reading more on the thread,I stumbled upon articles in OutlookIndia and IndiaToday,which persuaded me to have a look into the matter,from their viewpoint.Sharing some thoughts.

The incident of pub attack is not simply about moral policing or about political drama.See a few communal stirrings that the state (Karnataka ) has witnessed, especially in the coastal districts, after the BJP came to power last May.

  •  June 9, 2008: Temple affairs minister Krishnaiah Shetty issues circular to 34,000 temples to perform special puja for newly sworn-in CM. Order later modified after protests.
  • August 10, 2008: Karnataka Rakshana Vedike attacks a group of 35 people allegedly holding a ‘rave party’ at Manchanabele Dam
  • August 14, 2008: State-owned Mahabaleshwara Temple in Gokarna transferred to Ramachandrapur Math, known for its save-the-cow campaigns
  • August 29, 2008: The Public Instruction Department issues notices to all Christian institutions in the state to shut down to protest the violence against Christians in Orissa. Notice precursor to statewide attacks on churches.
  • September 14, 2008: With Mangalore as the epicentre, Sangh parivar activists attack Christian prayer halls and churches across state. More churches attacked three days later.
  • October 16, 2008: The largest-selling Kannada newspaper claims on its front page that conversions have gone up alarmingly after Sonia Gandhi-Congress came to power. Debates the issue on its Op-Ed page for over a month.
  •  October 30, 2008: Bajrang Dal activists attack two undertrials in Mangalore district sub jail; sixth such attack after its chief Mahendra Kumar’s arrest on September 20.
  • December 12, 2008: Aggressive posturing at Baba Budangiri by parivar leaders and Hindu pontiffs
  • December 27, 2008: Hoysala Sene attacks Fuga bar in Bangalore, alleges illegal activities
  • December 28, 2008: Bajrang Dal activists attack a bus ferrying students on a study tour to Mysore, saying girls and boys from different religions can’t travel together
  • January 6, 2009: B.V. Seetharam, editor of Mangalore-based newspaper Karavali Ale, who followed a strong anti-parivar editorial line, handcuffed and arrested in alleged extortion case. Prior to his arrest, parivar elements vandalise paper’s office.
  • January 7, 2009: Laddoos distributed in some schools across the state on Vaikunta Ekadashi. Congress demands biriyani should be distributed on Ramzan.
  • January 19, 2009: An arrested dacoit reportedly confesses links with radical Hindu groups and admits to carrying out the Hubli district court bombing before the May assembly elections
  • January 25, 2009: Sri Rama Sene activists attack pub in Mangalore and molest and beat up women
  • January 25, 2009: Bajrang Dal activists attack a private party in Mangalore
  • January 28, 2009: Muzrai department orders temples to perform special puja to ward off “ill-effects” of the solar eclipse [source]

Coming back to the recent incident of pub attack,BJP has distanced itself from Muthalik.But Outlook reports that in August 2007, when Yediyurappa was deputy CM in the H.D. Kumaraswamy cabinet, as many as 51 cases were withdrawn against parivar men, of which Mutalik is the first accused in many of these cases while VHP leader Praveen Togadia figures prominently in others.

Earlier,these guys were back of cows..They wanted the Centre to declare cow as a national animal and ban its slaughter. In March 2005, the outfit paraded naked a Muslim father and son in Adi Udupi in front of 500-600 people for allegedly “illegally trading in cows”.

However, the most common reason by far for a communal flare-up relates to the ‘mingling’ of youngsters from different communities. G. Rajashekar, co-author of The Dark Faces of Communalism, a book on communalism in Karnataka, says that according to data he has collected between May 2008 and now, there have been “14 recorded incidents of violence against Hindu girls for having been seen with either a Muslim or a Christian boy”. Prof Phaniraj, a rights activist teaching at a Manipal engineering college, says: “Since 1998, the frequency of communal incidents in the Dakshina Kannada area has increased.

The invariable plot for violence, he adds, is about a boy from a Muslim or Christian community ‘found being friendly’ with a Hindu girl, which leads to the self-styled protectors of the Hindu faith ‘intervening’ to ‘free’ the girl. Except intervening here means thrashing the boy. “We should remember that there was a sustained campaign against the Muslim community in Gujarat before Godhra happened,” says Phaniraj. Just prior to the Surathkal riots in 1998, a lot of pamphlets warning young Hindu women against going with Muslim boys were circulated.

The man who instigated the pub attack, Prasad Attavar, had in 2007 assaulted a Muslim boy at the Ideal Ice-cream Parlour in the heart of Mangalore for talking to a Hindu girl. More ghastly, however, was the 2005 incident in a Puttur cinema when two men (one Muslim) and two Hindu women working in an areca processing factory had gone to see a movie. Around 150 Bajrang Dal activists barged in, dragged the four out and assaulted them before handing them over to the police. As recently as six months ago, a Muslim and Hindu couple living together were forced to return to their native Gadag by parivar activists. “Intrusion into private spaces has become common,” says Phaniraj.

Besides the coastal districts, there has been an uneasy calm at other flashpoints like Baba Budangiri since 2004, where the Sangh parivar is hell-bent on converting the Sufi shrine with a rich tradition of religious syncretism into an exclusive Hindu pilgrimage centre. BJP leader H.N. Ananth Kumar had vowed to make it the ‘Ayodhya of Karnataka’. The Hubli Idgah Maidan issue had cropped up temporarily in September 2004 when Uma Bharati courted arrest and lost her chief ministership, but there has been little noise since then. The silence is eerie, however, and with a BJP government in power, pregnant. [source]

 

My dear friends,this incident is not about culture,but about religion..Its for you and me to decide on what  lessons do we learn from this incident.

 

 

p.s:

On January 17, 2008, while addressing a rally in Udupi, Muthalik said: “It’s time for blasts. Malegaon is just a trailer. Every house should have a person like Pragya Singh. Every housewife will carry bombs now.”[Watch video ]..

Mangalore’s on-the-rampage Ram Sene is drawn from the ranks of the Bajrang Dal and the Shiv Sena : http://tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Ne070209the_devoutly.asp

 

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  1. Brilliant compiling of incriminating facts. You should be a professional researcher. But it is not abt religion but abt power and money.To attain power they are destroying their religion and changing it to a fascist cult.

    Not really to my credit Doctor..I just put in all together..-Nimmy

  2. I think we should treat such miscreants and goons as criminals instead of seeing them as Muslims or Hindus

    Reema,this is not about classifying criminals based on religion.Instead,i am just trying to see the other side of real intentions or motives behind this attack..Only if we identify the underlying resons correctly,then can we cure the disease..-Nimmy

  3. Nimmy all this is far more terrifying than the Mumbai Terror Attacks.
    All acts of violence by mobs should be taken as terrorist activities. They are anti national and unconstitutional.
    These saffron parties have realised how gullible our people are and they are exploiting them.
    It can be controlled but nobody is interested in controlling them. A PIL is what we need here …. do you know any lawyers?

    I have deleted some such absolutely ridiculous comments… take a look at my last three posts , all are answers to people -including in the blogosphere.
    😦

    I share your sentiments IHM..This is indeed alarming..Its not just the saffrom brigade alone..Remember what happened to Taslims..But in the case of islamic fundamentalist,most of the people are aware about them and hence they face intense stiff against their actions..But as far as i know,the saffron terrorists are working under the cover of nationalism and to an extent they succed in convincing people.Just for eg,this time,many of eductaed bloggers have supported this incident..what better can we expect from our illiterate lot? Sorry i don’t know any lawyer dear.But lets hope that people get aware this time and thereby prevent this from occuring again.

    Apart from all that,it is really sad that we have lot more internal,than external threats to the nation as a whole..So sad and terrify ing =Nimmy

      • GyanP
      • July 14th, 2010

      IHM
      Please go through the history of Aligarh, Meerut, and Breilley riots. Their violence, and the loss of lives. And how they were stopped from happening again.

      If you study carefully the blogosphere, such incidents have again started to take place – in Mathura, Bareilley,a nd surrounding areas (though not reported by mainstream media. If at all reported- always the distorted picture).

      Are you not aware of the recent Bareilley riots? Just search Youtube for the live videos. I have first hand accounts of what happened there. These are the worst examples of organized and pre-planned violence.

      All these events are very successfully blacked out by the mainstream media. So, you always get the wrong picture.
      Media is always trying to portray the wrong image of Hindus. This is for us to correct this. Let us not take media as the Gospel of Truth.

      IHM, if don’t know the facts, how can you rush to draw the conclusions? Please don’t give innocent replies to loaded discussions.

      “All these activities are more terrifying than Mumbai attacks” – please don’t say this. This is shocking. Please see the following link-

      http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/hindus_jews_and_jihad_terror_i.html

      And regarding so-called queries of Michael Marcus, I request others to be careful of his types. He has come up with really, really loaded questions – they are already biased and give a distorted picture of India and Indians, and sow the seeds of difference. Maybe the real picture is quite different from what he says.

  4. Hi, I am currently working on a paper about Gujarat, its contemporary diaspora, religion, textiles and trade in world history, and it appears more and more that certain issues related to communalism cannot be ignored. Especially when they are strongly gendered ones such as you are writing about here. Simply put, here is what I am trying to tie together (still no coherent thesis, unfortunately), hoping to get info or input from your readers about:

    Most of the local NRIs where I live in the U.S. who are permanent residents rather than short term IT workers are Gujarati, and even though they are split into a number of different associations, they dominate presentations of “the public face of Hinduism” to other Americans and representations of Hinduism to others through VHP and BAPS charity efforts, VHP summer camps for youth, VHP interaction with activities of a non-Swaminarayan “pan-Hindu” temple, public celebrations of Indian Independence, Navaratri garbas, music and dance performances, etc. They are primarily from Surat-Navsari area. Diwali celebrations are promoted as socio-culturally analogous to Christmas, so that other Americans can relate, thus NRIs define themselves and present themselves to other Americans in primarily religious rather than in racial terms, which is a very interesting phenomenon in the context of the long history of immigration to the U.S. Gujaratis also appear to dominate all public events of the “Incredible India” sort that aim to educate other Americans about “ethnic” pride or about India. I have not yet observed ANY Muslim aspect to any of these public events or association activities. Muslims seem for the most part out of the picture, and Keralite Christians I think are as well, along with most Sikhs but not the few Jains. Most other Americans, of course, despite claims that we now live in a “post racial age,” see color, not religion when they see NRIs, because for the most part they have no clue about anything related to Sanatana Dharma, Sikhism, Islam, etc.

    The points that I am trying to theorize or tie together, based on empirical observation, surveys I have conducted, and anecdotal gleanings, are simply these:

    (1) no matter what the event, most males do NOT appear publicly in traditional Indian style dress, whereas nearly every female is almost ALWAYS in sari or salwar kameez. Of course there is no reason for them not to wear this most beautiful attire, but I suspect that there is a highly conservative gender and religious aspect to it, that has a significance in the diaspora context, quite different from whatever clothing choices one might make in India. Daughters here are, I think, under extra pressure to marry the right kind of person and “carry the weight of cultural reproduction” (quite similar to what Jews in AMerica have experienced, and there are many analogies that can be made between Jews and Gujaratis)

    (2) I have the overall impression that local Gujaratis are overwhelmingly sympathetic to Modi and maybe also to BJP, maybe also to VHP, antipathetic or at least skeptical of Muslims, though not necassarily “approving” of 2002 atrocities and even if they were they probably would tell me. They are alarmed at Christian conversion efforts, they are interested in the state’s economic development as a model for the rest of India, they occasionally visit India with their kids and retain ties with relatives, they want their ABCD offspring to have a connection with their heritage and they are being wooed, in a big, official way to invest in Gujarat’s shining future as envisioned by Tata, Ambani et al and apparently led by the uncorruptable and seemingly renunciate Modi. Now let me try to be even simpler in posing questions:

    (2) BAPS is not overtly political, its messages to devotees are more subtle, but I suspect it is the spearhead of saffronization in the diaspora. Yes or no? What do people think? What do non-Swaminaryans think of it? And is BAPS acquiring “traction” elsewhere in India (besides the tourist attraction temple in Delhi), or will it remain a peculiarly Gujarati / diaspora phenomenon because of its origins and distinct theology? Why was it selected for revenge

    (3) I know that Gujarat overwhelmingly votes BJP/Modi, but what about VHP in the land of Gandhiji? Is it very strong, and if so, stronger there and nearby Maharashtra than in other states? Has Gandhi been widely repudiated though still vaunted publicly? I hear about how much better a leader Sardar Patel would have been than Nehru, and how “Gandhi was wrong”, without people going so far as to say that it was right for him to have been assassinated.

    (3) I have heard some outrageous comments about Muslims, academically unsupportable assertions about India’s history and civilization, yet on the other hand I sense an “Americanization” among younger Gujjus in the sense that they understand, as Congress understood for India, that secularism in govt., pluralism, equality and tolerance are “the way to go”. Live and let live. I wonder if anyone can inform me of the extent to which Gujaratis are polarized, in India: is there really that much more communalism evident in Gujarat than elsewhere, or is all of Gujarat being unfairly tainted by Godhra events? And also: how do younger NRIs in the States feel about all of these issues?

    (4) as for clothing: on the one hand it appears mundane and not meaningful, but I want to take a more cultural anthropological approach. The stereotypes that women are more interested in beauty than men and “showing themselves off” or that men show themselves off by “flaunting the beauty of their women” won’t suffice, either. it’s the overwhelmingly evident asymmetry in diaspora public events that I notice: men always in western dress, females of any age, virtually never in western dress. Anyone have any ideas? I am not saying that NRI females are less “free” in USA or India, certainly not in terms of educational and professional opportunities, but I am wondering if they ARE less free in the sense that they are expected to marry the right kind of man, expected to act more “Indian” and Hindu than males are at home, teach the kids what it means to be Hindu, and so on. Or maybe the men feel the same pressures??? There may be a specifically Gujarati element at work here, because their presence locally is the result of what is called “selective chain migration,” and they are very well-organized and closely connected, though not necessarily related. Help, anyone?

    I will really appreciate any and all input from people. I am relatively new to all of this; I have seen, read, and learned a lot, but it would be easy for me to make egregious errors in my thinking and writing, which I of course want to avoid. Thanks much! One can post to these site, or offline, to me, at moshe176@yahoo.com, subject line: Gujarat (so I know it’s not spam)

    Thanks and welcome to my blog..I will study your thoughts and reply soon good day -Nimmy

    • Nimmy saab, Good Morning form here, mid-July and almost like mawsim. The picture you have of me is extremely different from what appears. “My types”? All directly descended from victims / survivors of Nazi genocide and or terrorism directed against Jews. Someone who knows that Western constructions of India etc. are caricatures and unfortunately reproduced in what we teach our young as part of world history. Never read deeply about India until 2006. Can’t read Gujarati, but have Ph.D and have by now read virtually everything in English on the topics of interest, even some non-academic material, and most of my queries have been answered / addressed by my readings and other information-gathering. If you examine my questions more closely, I think you will find them less loaded than you were given to think at first sight, and quite logical based upon the information that is available to me as an outsider, living far away, with info limited to what I can gather in print, other media, or directly from Indian acquaintances. I confess that of course they are not queries coming from any faith point of view, they are sociological and even cultural anthropological in nature. But definitely not in an Orientalist or “anti” anything sense, though do, again of course, reflect the history of intellectual thought in the West. I thought they were fairly straightforward, as did commentator Aam Insaan. As for the left or anyone who sows seeds of difference, I can’t stand them. Out and out Marxists even worse. That is my birth inheritance. One of my blog posts deals with that, I think it’s the one showing foods imported from countries in conflict Middle East and South Asia sitting together on shelves in Indo-Pak groceries in the U.S. I gather also from your reply that in India, either in a “common-sense” manner or in the Constitution, there is a distinction made that makes “religion” something other than “culture”? If that is so I can guess the reason, but I would appreciate a brief explanation. To me, everything is cultural and social, virtually everything taught, learned, and purposeful, and constructions of the human mind, perhaps even divinely inspired. If this “profile” is my type and you don’t care for it, I’m afraid there is nothing I can do. But I simply had to respond about to your ad hominem comment and especially to me as one who “sows seeds of difference” because if you knew me or my wife, in-laws, and family background at all, you would likely wonder about why we consciously, actively, and consistently work toward against those who do so (I hasten to add that my wife and still-surviving mother-in-law are more noble than myself). But I, like yourself, feel compelled to speak out when I think people who are given to a fascistic type of thought and action are more than merely idiotic, but murderous in intent. I certainly do not exclude Muslims of certain stripes from this “profile.” We have currently such an issue in the U.S., as with movements like “Tea Party” and crises over who “we” are versus who “they” are. I think that in modern history you will tend to find such movements and outbreaks of violence based on “difference” wherever there is deep economic crisis or social inequalities and perceived injustices. The pathology is circular victimization making the world go blind. Thanks for a reply, Michael

        • GyanP
        • July 26th, 2010

        Dear Marcus,

        The “types” comment was by me and not Nimmy. So, I will like to explain myself as follows.

        Sorry, if I hurt your sensibilities. Obviously, I did not know anything about your background. After reading your comment above, I will change the word “loaded” to “biased” or “prejudiced”.

        How? Some words reveal the prejudice. For example,

        1. “sympathetic to Modi and maybe also to BJP”.
        Why “sympathetic”, why not “supporters”? Is it a value judgment of a party, a leader? Was USA right in interfering in the internal matters of India by denying visa to Modi. If so it should not have let Rajiv Gandhi set his foot on American soil. The involvement of Congress in 1984 sikh riots is all too well know in India. Maybe USA likes to be selectively blind. I don’t blame you here. This is what you may have also read.

        2. “academically unsupportable assertions about India’s history and civilization” – Are we talking here about the misinterpretations of the Indian History and civilization? Which is mostly Euro-centric, as if everything originated from Europe. This reminded me of the California Text Book controversy, and the involvement of Witzel, and the support provided to him by the Church, and, their quite successful efforts to not to let Californian schools teach Hinduism in a respectful way. Most of the Indian history has been quite wrongly interpretd. I have not read it, but I think David Frowley’s books and Francois Gautier’s “Rewriting History” might be the right way to start. Srikant Talageri, through his trilogy on Aryan Invasion, has proved beyond doubts the antiquity of Vedic Civilization.

        3. “as Congress understood for India, that secularism in govt., pluralism, equality and tolerance are “the way to go”” — If you care to read more about what is going on in India, then the truth is quite far from this idealized picture. Now, the Congress brand of secularism is branded as “pseudo secularism”. Just search for it on Google and you will have plenty to read. I need not go deep into it.

        4. “Has Gandhi been widely repudiated” – Maybe there is another angle to the whole story. Following link might be of help-
        http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1308&Itemid=72

        5. Regarding clothing – I personally feel, that what you have observed is the outcome of the “selection of the fittest”. Males feel smart in Western dress – pant-shirt. Females find India colorful dresses more becoming to them. I know it from experience. Any lady whose physique can carry the grace of an Indian dress likes to wear an Indian dress. If this is not true all of the time, it is certainly true most of the time!

        And, in the end, all the above are my personal opinions. You may agree or not agree with them.

        I wish you a speedy recovery.

        Thanks!

        6.

  5. The last line is ‘all are answers to SUCH people -including in the blogosphere.’

    True,our silence will kill us all -Nimmy

  6. well maybe what we can do is go back to a sort of modern sufism…I think those guys are jobless…and lets see each one personally,what lead them such views? Naturally nurture…so let us correct that now and make sure we don’t need to deal with it in the future…

    I agree completely..We need to look WHY they do this..But sadly,this very big qstn is always left unanswered,as in the case with terrorists..We are still walking in dark and have no idea how to prevent these incidents in future -Nimmy

  7. Hmmm, I knew that there was a Hindu/Muslim angle to this but there was also a woman angle. They were certainly stopping all mixing of the sexes, and particularly those from different religions. Actually there are a lot of incidents like this and comparatively this Mangalore incident was less. I feel very sad when they try to separate two people who love each other.

    Nita,of course there is a woman angle to this..Women are easy targets and mostly,they can get away from their crime.Since i haven’t ever read on this religious angle to the incident,i was shocled and hence shared..I am glad i didn’t read all the simliar news you refer to 😦 I completely agree with your last sentence..Honestly speaking,i don’t expect we indians (i am talking about majority) to get out of their narrow mentality,in any near century -Nimmy

  8. IHM, Intervention by court is not the answer.Mobilisation of public opinion by all kinds of secular and religious organisations,media,artistes etc against extremist ideology is the need of the hour.

    True Doctor.The feel for need to resist or overcome these elements should come from within ourselves rather than somebody else,even the court,trying to enforce it..If people do it out of will,the impact will be more stronger and longer..The aam admi should be informed what the true colours of these green or blue or saffron parties are..-Nimmy

  9. @Yes Charakan I agree. But atleast the court can make sure these men are arrested and booked and such organizations banned?]

    IHM,Banning will not do much good..I have read that SIMI became more radical and militant after it got banned by government..By banning,they just have the pain to shift their work underground..Maybe we ahve to keep them in public,yet monitor and crub their anti-national activities..But i don’t know how practical is that..-Nimmy

    • manoj
    • February 1st, 2009

    Gujarat state witnessed first communal riot between muslims and hindus in indian history. As BJP in power it will not reduce, but intensify.

    What is the contribution of muslims to reduce the communal conflict in india.

    Hi,Welcome back 🙂

    congress is no saint,but just lesser-evil..They are smart is giving candies and getting people to vote for them..Again,lesser evil the better..

    I am not really sure on how do i answer the second part of your comment..I wonder why such question arises at all..Why is a single community expected to take actions..collectively we win,together we lose..I am sure that indian muslim ahve contributed lot to the society-any doubt? -Nimmy

      • GyanP
      • July 15th, 2010

      Manoj,
      Please acquaint yourself well about the your country’s history before coming to un-informed conclusions.
      The history of Hindu Muslim riots is a long long one. There was a lull. Then Godhra happened, then Gujrat.

      There is a long history of Hindu Muslim riots in the following areas – Aligarh, Meerut, Bareilley, even Old Delhi areas. Recently there were riots in Bareilley, which was indeed a large scale violence, as you can see from Youtube and many other websites that reported it. These kind of incidents are successfully blocked by the mainstream media, which enjoys Hindu bashing.

      This only exacerbates the situation, because it conveys that certain community is being favored. Which is in fact the case in the present regime with its extreme minority appeasing policies.

      Coming back to the topic – the above mentioned riots happened in 1970s and 1980s. As far as I remember, the RSS played a role in extinguishing the inflamed situation and making Hindus feel safe in these areas. The administration of the time also acted strongly when the situation had gone out of hand – this happened almost every year around festival times.

      Perhaps you were quite young then and so are not aware. You may see the archives of newspapers, or do some research on the net.

      The same kind of incidents have again started happening in Mathura/Bareilley areas. Just explore the internet. The mainstream media does not report them. It reports only those incidents that show Hindus in a bad light.

      I am all for the unity among all sections of society. But only my wishing will not do. The same sentiment has to be reciprocated by all, for it to be meaningful.

  10. Good post, Nimmy. Very well-documented.

    thanks for coming..I am honoured by your visit 🙂 -Nimmy

    • Chirag
    • February 2nd, 2009

    too me it means absolutely simple, its not the religion which people are after we are just a set of Vote Banks and demographics. So Who care about the culture or religion. Which of before mentioned entities allow women to be treated this way or the people to be killed on the bases of what religion they follow.

    Sadly we are just small insignificant pawns in the games of the political parties.

    Chirag,I should not have mentioned religion as there si difference between Hinduism and Hindutva (yeah,i know it is a way of life,but the context have chnaged its meaning) as the difference between Judaism and Zionism.Yes,nobody is interested in religion..It had been good,it it was in right sense,i mean nobody interfers with each others religious business..Here,point is simple.Muthalik wants to rise to leadership and contest in coming elections.He used this incident to gain national level publicity..

    I am sorry if you felt that Hindusim tells to trash women..I didn’t say that.If it was for religion,hypocritical muslims aren’t any behind in opressing women.. -Nimmy

  11. this is so sad….Nimmy….I really feel tired…what are we coming to??

    Education, travel, money and globalisation is actually leading people to become more bigotted..it should have been the other way round isn’t it.

    We are coming to an insane world where everybody is busy minding others business and not theirs..-Nimmy

    • Nandu
    • February 2nd, 2009

    We are the problem.

    As an independent observer, I have noticed that criticising Islam will lead to one being called an Islamophobe while criticising Hinduism is considered progressive. The pampering of minorities by Congress have resulted in BJP getting more and more support from Hindus. Otherwise, why would a party which has been there since independence suddenly gain prominence?

    ——————

    We are the problem.

    I don’t know whom did you refer to by ‘WE’…I agree with you to a large extent..Nobody and no ideology is above criticism and i believe that it is through pointing fingers that we correct each other. I agree with you that criticiszing islam is seen as Islamophobe,but i don’t agree that criticizing hinduism is progressive..I never thought that way.Religion and culture are messed up together in a porridge state,that one can hardly choose to follow either this or that.

    Again,i agree with you that policies of Congress has only helped in alienating hindus from the muslim community.but i disagree that there is any real appeasement as such..If there had been any sicere effort,i wonder why indian muslims ares till worser that dalits and SC/ST.. Thanks for coming after a long time 🙂 -Nimmy

      • GyanP
      • July 15th, 2010

      Nimmy,
      Nobody could state it so clearly and succinctly. You just hit the nail on the head – and a hard one. My congratulations to you! 🙂

      • GyanP
      • July 15th, 2010

      Niimmy,
      But I disagree to one of your comments above – that the Congress is the lesser evil. No way!
      Perhaps it is because due to its long presence we have come to believe that it could not have been better.
      India could be way way ahead, Nimmy. We were unlucky to get Nehru/Gandy family as our rulers.

    • Chirag
    • February 3rd, 2009

    Dude, I sense a misunderstanding, You don’t have to apologize,
    @ I am sorry if you felt that Hindusim tells to trash women..I didn’t say that.If it was for religion,hypocritical muslims aren’t any behind in opressing women.. -Nimmy

    Obviously you didn’t say that. For me every religion is useless, and with evidence all want women to be suppressed.

    If you get time do read this post:
    The Fantastic ‘F’ Word, With Few Failures
    http://chiragchamoli.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/the-fantastic-f-word-with-few-failures/

    ———–
    Please delete thge previous comment bad English, no coffee yet.

    ——————

    These days i am afraid to utter the word religion,as it is highly inflammable and is like palying with fire,ythow it or eat it,you are finished,and hence i apologize when i feel even a slight misunderstanding..Will read the post..-Nimmy

    • manoj
    • February 3rd, 2009

    muslims in UP this week launched madrasa education separately for girls and boys.

    in progressive kerala muslims keep separate venue for women and men even for marriage.

    sachar committee’s finding shows all the rural/urban muslim women are interested in education/better living condition.
    what is the muslim’s contribution in betterment of their own community.

    —————————–

    🙂 True,I agree that middle class educated muslims ahve done nothing at all for the society,not in general or religious community in particular..Most atleast paof them are a bunch of hypocrites who drink pepsi and say ‘Oh,muslims are discriminated and oppressed’..Maybe if we had yed Zakat properly,it would ahve made much difference.Regarding the segregation you mentioned,i think the gap is getting narrowed day by day..things will not change overnigh,but then again, i agree that there is lack of will to progress ,among muslims.. Will ahve a psot on this soo..Thanks-Nimmy
    sri ram sena is a relatively small and new outfit.

    • Milind Kher
    • February 3rd, 2009

    The VHP, Bajrang Dal and other such terrorist organizations are proving to be a real danger to the nation.

    It is very important for all right thinking Indians to stand up and protest all this.

    • Aam Insaan
    • February 3rd, 2009

    Michael Marcus
    BAPS- will remain a peculiarly Gujarati,
    India is home to a thousand BAPS…
    Why was it selected for revenge—the tourist attraction temple in the state capital of Gujarat.symbolic.
    Gandhi ,repudiated—No, he represents much of the Pan-Indian values, which are argued much by the argumentative Indians, which comes naturally to Indians…
    though still vaunted—No, Debated-yes- yet with respect…
    I hear about how much better a leader Sardar Patel would have been than Nehru,-True,
    is all of Gujarat being unfairly tainted by Godhra events?– To a large extent, mainly due to ignorance & wide spread sustained tirade by vested interests, for political, social & monetary gains…
    “public events that I notice: females of any age, virtually never in western dress. “
    – emotive, sense of belonging, assertiveness or a plain style statement- Elegant.
    “they are very well-organized and closely connected, “
    – birds of a feather, alienation, identification (fear of loss of identity), comfort level, fear psychosis, cultural disconnect,

    • Aam insaan only today I saw your reply to my long-ago questions, sorry. Had two major surgeries this past year. I also replied to what Nimmy wrote regarding what he took to be “my type” based on the questions I posed. Thanks very much for your reply. Michael.

    • Aam Insaan
    • February 4th, 2009

    “Religion and culture are messed up together in a porridge state,that one can hardly choose to follow either this or that.”

    — As far as my observation goes, the Hindu religion & culture are very much in sync & absolved in a multi-ethnic & diversified state, complementing each other…( & same goes for the Parsis, Jews, Sikhs, Jains, Christians…etc.), those who voice dissent are mainly the Muslim community, who seek extra privileges in the name of religion & demand higher status than that which exists on equal right terms for all citizens, not that they believe in it, but wield their hypothetical demand as a political tool, facilitating their own exploitation by vested interests, irrespective of –for or against…or maybe-believing, fancying or desiring it’s identity as to be distinct & different, leading them to view the state as in a ‘messed up porridge’ state…

    • Kiran
    • July 14th, 2010

    what a load of hatred…

    what a load of self loathing…

    what a load of ignorance…

    if one fears uttering religion as a word then why the hell that person keeps posting this kind of topics…

    may be haterd towards rss and its branches clinches the issue…

    it is a bit fashion in this god forsaken country to criticize hindus and rss…

    at the same time, yes, rss has some elements of authoritarianism in its ideology…no doubt about it…it is pathetic in many issues…it is even sexist…

    but they are also fools…miserable fools…they are illiterate…it is completely undemocratic…

    it is a sad state that such an organization is the one which hindus have to look to for future…i do not see any other option…

    frankly i do not think it will deliver any thing, it will only worsen…

    how many people really believe more instability will be there in this country…i bet my life on this…

    have you ever read the comments in secular. multicultural indian muslim websites like twocircle.net and etc….

    this is what some (muslims) write…they say hindus and muslims should co-exist peacefully for the sake of integrity of this country…

    can any one notice inherent threat in this…only blind can not see…

    some write that if govt. interferes in their personal matters…jihad is the only option…which will eventually destroy the country for both hindus and muslims… so hindus beware…

    and this was exactly the slogan of muslim league before partition…supported by every muslim including aligarh university…

    these comments are not written in urdu but in excellent english…meaning these people are educated very well…

    my good friend sri who used to comment here, himself a born muslim, wonderfully summed up the situation in a forum and he got banned for that…

    his conclusion is simple…hindus and this country will pay heavy price for not completing the doing which muslims themselves bitterly wanted in 1947…

    this so called seemingly secular madam adeptly calls hindus who do not agree with reservations as blind animals…she even concludes that number is increasing…

    adios

    • GyanP
    • July 16th, 2010

    Nimmy,
    I agree with most of what you say, but here is my opinion one one topic that caught my interest.

    This is regarding one of the news pieces mentioned above – regarding the concern of the Karnataka govt. at the increased evangelical activity of the Church.

    I don’t see anything wrong in the concern per se. Recently, the Sri Lankan government has passed an anti-conversion law. They have been at the receiiving end for so many years – most of the LTTE cadre was Christian!

    For another example I am quoting the following-
    “..the Pope went to Jerusalem where Jesus was born, for a similar dialogue that the Vatican had undertaken with the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. At the end of that meeting when the Pope and Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzer jointly addressed the Press and Media, the Chief Rabbi thanked the Pope for assuring the Chief Rabbinate that the Catholic Church would desist and cease from all missionary and conversion activities among the Jews. This is construed as endorsed and agreed by the Pope since he was present at the press meet. ”

    The entire article can be read at the following link-
    http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1125&Itemid=72

    These kind of conversion activities change the demographics of the effected region and always create friction and imbalance in the social sphere. The methods they use are also very questionable. Mostly by befooling uneducated and poor people. Will they ever try it in, say, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan?

    Freedom of practicing one’s religion is one thing, but taking advantage of the tolerant culture of India is quite another.

    Besides, I consider it political expansionism in the garb of religion. It should be a matter of concern for every educated India.

    If I want to preserve my country’s culture – there is nothing wrong in that! No need to chide with ‘Holy people’ remarks.

    • Ajax
    • August 18th, 2010

    u know the title of the post is fundamentally wrong. Hindutva as defined and universally accepted is a way of life. Hindus are such don’t exist. HIndus refer to those people who live to the East of Indus.That is the origin of the term. Those whom u call Hindus are actually Santana Dharmiks of the followers of the Eternal Religion /Path.
    And as for Hindutva-ization of India.. u see i take the same offence as mayhap u would take if i said Islamization of India.
    We do not forcibly convert co-erce and force ppl to convert to our religion.

    • rr
    • May 8th, 2011

    For all the above my request to read the book of the link given here before denouncing the Hindus / sanatana Dharma or else just be dumb animals to be slaughtered to burn in hell fire. http://www.infibeam.com/Books/info/m-khan/islamic-jihad-legacy-forced-conversion-imperialism-slavery/9781440118470.html

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