Why are women enemies to each other?
Australia‘s prime minister joined Muslim leaders on Thursday in condemning a cleric’s comments that husbands are entitled to smack disobedient wives and force them to have sex. “Amazing, how can a person rape his wife?” Hamza said, adding that wives must immediately respond to their husbands’ sexual demands. [more]
Islamonline.net is a pretty authentic source from where one can learn about Islam.They have a decent take on various matters-political or religious-around the world.I am shocked to read a statement from a FEMALE Islamic scholar..In regard to a question on marital rape,she says :
…… Of course if the husband insists on sleeping with his wife by force, it would not be considered rape since this is a right granted to him, but it is also not in accordance with Islamic teachings . Such an act contradicts the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the ethics of intercourse. Gentleness and kindness are among the manners of intimate relations in Islam…
The complete article can be read here, so that one may verify if I have taken anything out of context..Yes,she says that ‘it is not right’..I am wondering what on earth stopped her from saying that IT IS WRONG..
I have seen people(this includes both men and WOMEN) boasting that men have uncontrollable sexual desires and hence women must be ready-money setup 24/7.Many women have argued with me that men have ultra sexual desires that one single woman alone cannot satisfy them..What the heck..Forget them,they are brainwashed and seasoned ,but sadly to a higher degree that nothing on earth can change their attitude,but is the same expected from a learned person who is addressed as a scholar..
Coming back to the point,there are many rulings floating around stating that it is the RIGHT of husband to have intimacy with his wife,no matter even if she disagree.Marital rape is an alien concept to me,but reading the above statement by Zeinab Mostafa made me look into it.I was wondering how can a husband rape his own wife!Marital rape is not to be confused with boring physical intimacy.
Question: What is marital rape?
Answer: Marital rape is any unwanted sexual acts by a spouse or ex-spouse, committed without consent and/or against a person’s will, obtained by force, or threat of force, intimidation, or when a person is unable to consent.
These sexual acts include intercourse, anal or oral sex, forced sexual behavior with other individuals, and other sexual activities that are considered by the victim as degrading, humiliating, painful, and unwanted.
It is also referred to as spousal rape and wife rape.
Forget the definitions,I am just feeling bad about this lady ,that ,who as a scholar should have bothered to stand by fair and just side.IHM has a great post here-some gems from Manusmrthy..Bible too has some gems..and again,Hadiths,not Quran,too have many great gems like one telling that angels will curse you if your husband goes angry to bed and one which says that you have to provide for husband,even if you are on camel top.. How disgusting and how sad that one is afraid to talk about justice and fairness..Now I understand why IHM is angry over Nirmala Venktesh…Yes,her’s and my posts are about two different contexts,but the bottomline is “Women are women’s enemies..”
p.s:
Marital Rape: A Non- Issue In India
India: Violence Against Women on the Rise
Nimmy's Experiment with Blogging 
No women, be it a scholar or a nescient in her right senses will admit that their husbands have raped them. The society will scoff at the very idea for publicly declaring it. There’s no denying that “Men” have a compulsive need to get rid of their bodily “fluids” and cannot contain them for long. It either flows out with disturbing “sex dreams” which itself occurs due to sexual repression or the man is discreet enough to go and masturbate when the wife is not available for sex ( Red flags, business tours and pregnancy an example).
Martial Rape is not ALL rape. Martial rape is more common in abusive relationships where frustrations in daily fights and disagreements are vented in “forced intercourse.” Abusive Marital rape as we can call it will be accompanied by slapping, abusing and coercive oral sex. So women complain of Maritial Rape when there is abuse involved in it and they have the same effects as in a normal rape like anxiety, shock, intense fear, suicidal thinking, depression, and post–traumatic stress because she’s is being humilated and traumatized.
All married couples have gone through some force and a lot of convincing on some “nights” and later enjoyed sexual bliss which is absolutely normal. All married women will vouch on that…
Nice post anyway. Keep Blogging!
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That was a comprehensive comment 🙂 I agree with all what you said..I have read on categorizing MRs ..But MR is not the same as the force you mentioned in last sentence-comparing apples and oranges.Every couple goes thru that,but marital rape is something else where husband does it to vent off anger and many other reasons as you said..
But the very first statement is not fully true 🙂 Of course in our society,in any near centuries,no women is going to say loud that she has been raped by husband,in fact there is no law or no statistics about it.But in US,the statistics is scary..Even if we have a system in india,it will be under-reported as is the case with sex crimes now.But i think we should change our attitude of ‘Yuck,she is a victim’ ,otherwise,how will the victims seek justice against the abuser? -Nimmy
Thoughtful and incisive!
Indian Muslims blog is another good source.
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🙂 Thanks .Yeah,IM too is a good source to understand ,but more of political subjects..Keep coming.I visited your blog yesterday,sorry yet to comment ..Will come over your place soon -Nimmy
Good Post. Marital rape is wide spread but not reported. Many a time I have seen women getting hysterical and falling ill and coming for medical attention due to this reason.
The famous such rape [or escape from it] is depicted well in Malayalam film Padom Onnu oru Vilapom.
Only when the Patriarchy collpases[may be in few centuries] there will be an end to it.
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Thanks for reffering the movie,it made me understand more what marital rape is..It is good to hear from you as a doctor,you’ld know real time cases..I cannot talk authentically on how wide spread it is,as there is no statistics available,but in a patriachial society like ours,one can expect a huge number of cases..We should atleast provide secret services to these women,so that they will come and seek help -Nimmy
Another brilliant post Nimmy!!!
Lots of myths need to broken. We have been brain washed into believing a lot of nonsense not just about men but also about ourselves.
If you have read Arundhati Roy’s “God of Small Things’, then compare the permissions granted to Chako but not to his sister. It is social conditioning not ‘nature’ that makes a woman talk or accept such nonsense.
She is a victim who has become a perpetrator.
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Thanks IHM.. True,we are socially conditioned to think and act in the way others please..Men are victims too,but the rate is far less than women getting abused..And the final line says it all ..”She is a victim who has become a perpetrator.”..how sad,and hence the never ending cycle of MIL-DIL ,dowry etc etc issues…-Nimmy
“Women are women’s enemies..” exactly, most of the dowry harassment start with a woman-in-law !
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lol..”woman-in-law.”
It is women who are more particular about dowry ,it is women who are more obsessed with male-childs,it is women who are obsessed with fighting over petty issues 🙂 lol..but men too have their own share ,they play underground ,behind the scenes;-) -Nimmy
Good post Nimmy. You know, taking off from a comment here, I too think that marital rape is a symptom of the disease, of an abusive relationship. No man in a good marriage will rape his wife because it will ruin the relationship. Men in such relationships are usually very dominating, often abusive and object to the wife having a free life. If they also rape, it shows a violent tendency, besides a lack of respect for women. And anyone committing a violent deed will always look for crutches to justify the act, and religion is always handy. Religion does not recognize the equality of men and women, whether its Islam, Hinduism or Christianity. But this is not the fault of the religion, but the time when these religions were invented. Life then was like that.
I think someone needs to invent a modern religion! 🙂 Not that I am going to join it. I am content in my agnostic belief.
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🙂 You put it very right,no sane humane husband will abuse their wife..And the ones who do it,no matter what their race or culture or reliigon is,will do it .They jsut need to lean on something and justify their act and sadly,religion provided it in plenty..
We neen’t have a new religion,just correct the mistakes in present ones,i am sure that it will lead to a single entity where we all will follow the same ethics and love each other -Nimmy
Marital rape is always put under the carpets. We, as part of society, turn a blind eye to it. I can’t understand why we have people (read clerics, senas, and other stupids) who still throw these archaic scriptures in our face. Times have chnaged. Needs have changed. When do we acknowledge that. Check out wedding portals, people now want independent, working women who know their mind. But very men can turn to give you a ‘culture’ dose.
Not all women are enemies to each other, but some are plain stupid, obtuse and petty.
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Poonam, i think my post is out of scope now as,today we are being more prograsive by beating and trashing women even for wearing jeans Man assaults jeans-clad wife for dressing up like men If we as a society can’t even take actions against small things like these,in any near centuries can we expect anybody to talk against complex thing as marital rape..Yes,not all women are enemies to each other..When in trouble,i ahve had many dear women who ran to me for help and support-my lovely friends -Nimmy
Many newly wed girls show hysterical reactions due to forceful sex. Lack of sex education in both partners is the major reason. MR in long standing relns never come out in open. Christianity especially in Europe have adapted well to modernity. If other religions do not adapt more and more ppl will get out of it. No new religion has evolved for last few centuries. It is highly unlikely.
Awesome post Nimmy. Brainwashed that’s what most of the population is male and female.
Your words: ” there are many rulings floating around stating that it is the RIGHT of husband to have intimacy with his wife,no matter even if she disagree”
I have an interesting tale of a husband asking his wife, “Didn’t your mother teach/tell you that you have to obey and please (read acquiesce to have sex) your husband??” Hmmm… I wonder what HIS parents taught him!
@Biju. Not ‘ALL’ married couple neither ‘ALL’ women
Thank you for writing about this while the muslim world just lets thus pass in silence. Silence has become the norm and the words of other people who are selfappointed “scholars” or “authorities on islam” are taken without objection even when it defies logic. And then I find it absurd when muslims are upset when Islams image suffers and people associate it with things which the “scholars” themselves support.
Marital rape is one such thing.
Mrs Zeinab Mostafa, a socalled “scholar” with Islamonline, who has served a lawyer in Egypt for 12 years or so (maybe as defence lawyer for rapists seeing as she supports marital rape?) is not alone.
Ebrahim Desai, with his infamous fatwa nr. 2805 on his website http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/ supported rape as a whole of unveiled women. These women were partially to blame for attracting the attention of the rapist.
Like Zeinab Mostafa he is also on the board of Islamonline.
Further more Samir Abu Hamza also supports marital rape as well as wife beating (another taboo topic).
islamonline does not hold much credibility because many times their fatwas contradic each other, some encourage illegal activities and spy activities and their overall view on things seem to be that praying and having patience appearently solves everything. Their fatwas also differe with respect to whether it is an asian muslim from Singapore asking on a topic, or if it is an arab muslim asking on the same topic. I have myself come across these issues.
They also are not fond of using rationale or common sense in applying what is their own interpretation as being obligatory for the followers.
They are also fond of using hadiths as integral part of understanding islam. Yes we are all too aware of the “deep” and “noble” “science” of hadiths. Basically word-out-mouth narrations collected some 300 years after the prophet Muhammad dies. Further more they seem to be oblivious to the obvious contradictions and innovations of hadiths as compared to the Quran.
Their power and hold can only decrease if muslims wake up and start questioning things and exercising independence in understanding their faith. A divine right.
So in light of Zeinab Mostafas fatwa, one must conclude that Islamonline and its borad of “scholars” agree with her seeing it was published.
Rape is nowhere mentioned in the Quran. Marital rape is not even considered a concept or issue in Islam.
A wife his a mans tilth and so he can enter his tilth when and how he pleases. Thought invoking.
I feel shocked that a woman of all people would support something as vile and disgusting and inhumane as marital rape.
You question is apt?
I am yet to see Women commission’s taking any step after the recent goon attacks.
We see women questioning other women over lifestyle choices, dress etc. Even when husband strays in a marriage it is the ‘other’ woman who gets blamed when husband is the one who took vow.
It is MIL who expects a lot from her DIL. It is her who has possessive control over son. DIL too don’t adjust well to MIL.
And as for our scriptures like Manu smriti, it is time to burn everything written in that. That is the most redundant and discriminatory piece of c**p. It has caste system and regulations for women. Okay then times were different (Bad times for sure) but why do we still follow them?
BTW you are tagged 🙂
Women on the whole play a very muted role in upholding women’s rights in Islam.
The reality is that the Holy Prophet (SAWA) was a reformer, modernist and a great champion of women’s rights.
Why women bow down in front of the selfish mullahs is something beyond me. These liars who malign Islam need to be put down firmly.
Hi Nimmy,
You have been awarded:
http://kanaguonline.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/my-new-horizons-and-more-awards/
My comment on this article will follow soon.
I don’t think women even care to report that because of the negative approach of the society towards the issue. Women are seasoned to believe that that is how the things are supposed to be.
When you are taught to call Sun as Moon, you will never question it unless you see someone else calling it Sun. 🙂
@Nimmy’s Reply,
It’s okay, Nimmy. Don’t feel sorry about not leaving a comment on my blog. Just relax; no quid pro quo! Just enjoy writing without any compulsion. I will keep coming to you, just the same.
I am a new kid on the block and I’ll honestly confess that sometimes I am so uncomfortable with blogging because it occurs to me it is some kind of mild compulsion that I have to visit other blogs, check latest RSS feeds daily, leave comments on various blogs and wait for others to come to my blog so that the cycle/process would continue!
I don’t know if others feel the same way! My exam season is coming and it will all have to stop for some months and I am already beginning to think how Nita or Poonam will feel in future when I do not visit them!
Sometimes I feel I should not leave comments on blogs for fear of of making new acquaintances which will only augment the magnitude of the responsibility.
Sometimes, I wish I didn’t had a blog. Sometimes, I wish I was only a reader!
I guess that was a lot of confession! Phew!
umm…the topic’s a little deep here…and I am out of depth…being unmarried and all..
But this I am clear on..If it is forceful and traumatic…if it violates me and all that I am..then it IS marital rape.
wow!A tag and an award!Congrats!:)
Thank you for that comment..:)
and umm..been visiting but always felt hesitant…
and @ Vikas:-lol!exactly how I feel/felt…not anymore though * I think*…keep dropping in on other blogs…you dont always have to leave a comment…:D…or expect others to leave one..enjoy your blogosphere!:)
Good post! I see that you always talk about important social issues, mostly in the context of Islam and Muslim women. I think you are doing a good service by trying to dispel some myths and encouraging rational discussion.
As for marital rape, I think it’s a very important issue especially in countries such as India where the incidence is much more than what’s reported. Yes, women could be many a times biggest enemy of other women. And, yes, there is no justification of marital rape by saying that men have uncontrollable physical urge compared to women.
I agree with the Australian PM.
She is doing good for womanhood.
If a woman feels she has been harassed by her husband, she should leave him immediately and file a divorce suit wihtout alimony.
making it a useless issue of marital rape, women hurt the womanhood alone and nothing else.
Mostly, the crooked and venomous women uses such marital rape laws to frame their innocent men and blackmail them and gather high prices or making alimony cases. its ridiculous to support a woman Just because she is a woman.
Allready, Europe and Australia are suffering from inequality of genders, as Government always favors female against male. And that has deteriorated the societies. There should be Equality and Laws should not be made on discriminations of gender.
How can one compare a husband daring to take a dominant role and a pedophile raping an innocent girl of 12?
The first case of husband certainly is not rape, the second case certainly is rape.
The first case may be termed as a sex-offence, but second case is RAPE.
By issuing useless laws on rape, government actually makes women more vulnerable.
Every blogger wrote about the Incidence of Mangalore pub attack by RamSena.
I was the first to mention the case nonetheless as I made my 26th Januray post right after seeing that news on NDTV.
I also mentioned it as rouge action of saffron group.
But later on I thought more on the issue. it was not a saffron group attack on youth.
it was rather the issue of Date Rape and the way feminists take on it.
Why Do these people, or any person advocating girls to not to go to pubs, not to drink alcohol not to go to dates, not to mingle with boys, suggests so?
They do so because of the increasing number of date rapes.
I know every feminist will criticize men on that issue, and will start demanding more stringent action and laws etc…
But its futile. Women Must understand that by forcing/cajoling government to act unequally and discriminate on the basis of gender will destroy our own society.
By the way, now you will see why women becomes enemies of woman. its not about womanhood, even males becomes enemies of males.
Who so ever says truth, becomes the enemy of others. Now i will be considered an enemy of yours and all other feminists.
Lol Australian PM did right and some feminist women became her enemy.
Why not denounce Government for any cause?
let the society work on principle individual equality against law and social justice.
There should NOT be any discrimination on grounds of sex, class, creed, religion, colour, race…
Feminists always demand special favors, special laws based on discrimination on gender.
it is wrong.
Woman should have freedom to divorce immediately if she feeels she is being harassed in a relation. But she cannot mkae it a point that although she is in a sexual relation, she won’t do sex. and If man persist, she will blame of Marital rape, and will blackmail and loot the man.
That man can surely be someone’s brother, son, friend. Why will a woman support a looter woman who is blackmailing her brother?
Laws should be equal for all irrespective of gender.
And anyways, the best way is to renounce marriage itself.
Excellent post NImmi. I think the myths which are anti-feminsit are as bad for men as they are for women. Take the male urge idea for instance. While it makes a woman seem inferior , it also calls the man an animal. Surely as humans we need better examples. And therefore need to look at ourselves as capable of controlling our urges.
On the comment by Gargi, I fear she is a troll- too often have I come across that comment regarding Date rape by her. However, let me address it saying, feminists do not deny date rape exists. They do not put all the responsibility on women by telling hem not to drink. Rape means any NON-CONSENSUAL SEX. Whether it be under the influence of alcohol or drugs or without them. Thats all. Telling women to stay away from alcohol because they might be raped is as regressive as telling them to keep indoors or keep covered because they might be raped or molested. It makes rape seem like a perpetrator-less act.
A person is not “raped”, rather someone rapes a woman( or a man )- if you can see the difference between the two statements. The victim is NEVER responsible for the crime- because in the rape analogy, it would then be said that there is no way of proving that a woman who does not have her hymen was raped- for then there is no proof of it.
Sorry, Nimmi if I fed the troll, but anti-feminist posts get my blood up. Because feminism is the radical idea that men and women are equal- that is all. No feminist stance ever talks about the supremacy of women. Anti-feminists are anti-equality.
@it would not be considered rape
consent, is the key word most people are forgetting, here.
And why are we still referring her as a scholar. Women are not Women are women’s enemies, but they come close right next to men. Worst enemy is monotheistic, male-dominated religions.
so much as been said already that i don’t have anything left to say. 🙂 i love your choice of topics. very pertinent. very relevant.
Well written post Nimmy. There are several answers, there for your question. The important answer I think is, the misinterpretation of the sayings in our holy books and after been lived in a male dominant world for few centuries, these so called scholars are finding it difficult to come out of it. Dont call them scholars. A person who not even able to think of his own will never be a scholar.
Its interesting how we tend to take humane decisions based on religions views. I agree that religion was supposed to guide us have a better life, but may be someday when we look at things more personally and then when we imagine overselves in the other’s shoes things might look very different. I dont see why people need to see if this is a right of a husband or a wife, because intimacy is a feeling and not a right, I guess when people/religion begin to classify feelings as rights or duties, we are indeed headed for a doom