Freedom of expression-Round up

This has indeed been a brainstorming session,and i am very much sure that you guys got sick and tired towards the end ..I am sorry for not putting much input-it is simply becasue i don’t have clear idea of the subject.

 

Thanks to all for your precious time and sincere efforts to convey the idea in words.I know that unlike me who sits in front of pc almost whole day,most of you are working or studying and thanks a lot for sharing so much of viewpoints..lol..I am sounding so formal.Sorry,but i just felt like appreciating everybody for taking part in the discussion.

 

Both Charakan and Indyeah/Solio have valid points[mentioned them in particular as they were who added lot of thoughts,it doesn’t mean that I didn’t read or don’t appreciate others inputs].In the end,both of them are coming to a single point,a walk-over through the main points,as it would be injustice on my part to ignore their effort and time spent on the post.

 

First of all,the basic FACT that this heated discussion happens is because,as Kanagu says,

As you have mentioned in the end when the people have people have strong belief in their faiths this will not happen.

Charakan shares the same words

Do you think your religion will be destroyed becasue of that?Then you dont know religion

 

Me,Indyeah,Solilo,IHM,Manju,all of us hold the same opinion,period.

 

Secondly, as Chrakan says,majority of people are peace loving.But the minority fundamentalists have strong influence in our society and hence all these issues happen when they exploit the mass[who have no idea of spirituality ,but are happy in mechanical religious rituals that are repeated in equal intervals of time] accompanied with the politicians who are bothered about power and vote banks.To Charakan’s words[just the main points]

 

  • 1% of fundamentalists are holding the peace loving public to ransom.
  • All fundamentalsits want such an impression in general public,that religion is above law
  • Politicians believe that if a fundamentalist say something all members of that religion will follow suit

Now see what Indyeah says about us,the mass who doesn’t have a second thought before going on street,the moment we hear ‘Oh,your religion and culture is in danger,there is war on Islam,there is muslim propaganda to flick hindu girls,there is Christian conspiracy to convert all indians’ etc etc.Her words:

 

What of the masses?I know they are gullible and stupid fools one might call them..But in their gullibility they take lives and give their own..

So true..They burn public property,they are so furious that they want to wipe out anything and evreything that wouldn’t satisfy their ego..

 

Ok,now looking into solutions,this is where difference of opinion happened.Charakan says

 

. Or you can just ignore him/her,ask all your friends and family members to do so and even put some notices asking people to boycott him.Or you can hold a peaceful dharna [after getting prior permission from the police] in front of the artist’s house or Gallerry. Instead of campaigning against hate-mongers of all religions we are putting the artists in the dock.s

Indyeah said

 

That they [artists]should be gently told to avoid a thing or two once in a while?

Atleast till the state is able to ensure that the artists are secure and free to express whatever they want..

 

Is it not our responsibility to act as responsible citizens and ensure that while the masses stay within their limits and not start getting violent at any opportunity

One view is not to have limits,but that the solution lies in the mass being more tolerant and secular.The other view is to have some limits until and unless the stae becomes smart enough to handle the situation, rather than just sitting idle and watching the show[as is the case it happens mostly]. As Gargi said,

the Government is the evil.

Agreed,but we are a part of the whole system and there is no point blaming the government.I disagree with her when Gargi says that Government is impotent-No,we the mass are the impotent ones,singing tunes to whims of every other rowdy or anti-social element round the corner.

 

In my opinion,the solution is inline within the thoughts of Charakan and Indyeah-make the mass tolerant,meanwhile,as Poonam said,let government deal with the situation as it required in a law and order scenario.

 

So how do we make the mass more tolerant.Spread awareness about facts facts facts.When people say ‘there is war on Islam’,make people understand that faith is something unshakable,and those with shakeable faith needn’t remain in the system.When they say that India is going to burst out due to increasing muslim population,give them facts that the rate of decline of poluation [fertility rate]among muslims is so high that they will come to a stagnant state,which as been acheived by Hindus andChristains already) soon.So,maybe they will have to take a 2999 more births to see india getting stuffed with muslims..When somebody tells you that Christians are converting every Indian,make them understand that faith is not something than can be forced upon,and those who convert for food or education will either come back to original religion or will secretly continue practicing what they believe in.There is no point in projecting numbers..I have read reports on rocket increase in number of muslims.I find it so hard to believe that so many people are attracted to Allah,I am sure theer are many converting out of ‘no choice left’.So,my question is,what is the point in converting if you have no love or faith in the system.Agreed that statistics is on the ride,but of what use? Coming back,I feel there is no point in worrying over conversion.Those who love it,will remain in it forever.Those who fly away never deserved to be in it.Afterall ,Sanadhana Dharma is all about living a blissful life.

 

Sorry,I lost focus. I was talking about spreading awareness about FACTS rather than rumors.And secondly tell people either to follow religion in complete or not follow it at all.the half-baked state is the most worst and dangerous one.

 

Thirdly,in regard to government intervension in these issues of moral policing,pressurize the so-called leaders to TAKE ACTION as per the penal code.When girls where beaten in pub,isn’t there a case for attacking people and harming them? In Mumbai,why weren’t the women taken into custody for attacking a person[luckily for Indians,it was a Pakistani,else the government would have been made a joker when the respective country’s embassy would ask for legal action..Ha,Pakistanis don’t deserve respect in our eyes,right?] My point is,every time government doesn’t take action against unwated,illegal protests,the more and more will people will get inspired to moral police.Tell me how many of you will think twice or thrice before jumping into streets,if predecessors before you were punished for disturbing public life? Take efforts to end the lawlessness. As Poonam said,we have enough laws,but none are implemented.

 

To end my rant,this discussion had been a great one,imparting lot of viewpoints and ideas.As to put our thoughts in action,next time you hear that your religion or culture is in danger,rather than listening to somebody else’s propaganda,read and learn for yourself-THE FACTS.Also,when there is a situation of moral policing,no matter if it is in the name of religion or culture or political or geographical factors,make sure you support the victim.They are afraid to come forward and talk about it [we never heard of the girls who got beaten],due to the resulting social stigma.Stand up for them,for this may happen to you tomorrow and unless you start raising voice,you will not find anybody in your favour,when its our turn..Do remember that…

 

 

In course of time,let us make efforts to make a society where artists can put forward their viewpoint,with no fear ,while we the mass have grown up and learned to behave well and react matuerly,if the creation or incident is indeed offensive

 

 

Good day to all..I hope I did some justice in concluding the discussion..Sorry for al typos,I have no time to re-read now..Gotta go..

Charakan says:

EACH AND EVERY ARTIST SHOULD HAVE FULL FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION 

Solilo says:

 

“True freedom is a Utopian philosophy. We are never going to achieve that because we are bound by laws.” 

 

Indyeah says :

 WHEN I SAY FREEDOM SHOULD HAVE BOUNDARIES I AM TALKING OF SELF IMPOSED BOUNDARIES AND CULTIVATION OF A SENSITIVITY

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  1. LOL!My head’s going to burst with all the freedom talk too….I soo want to go back to my mushy posts..:D
    great round up Nimmy!:)
    Like I said ,all of us do agree on basic points even Charakan..
    Howver the language used was pretty strong at times and hence the reluctance to participate further…:D
    I am sounding petulant now..
    loeved your post which started all this…
    thank YOU
    ((hugs))

    • ruSh.Me
    • February 11th, 2009

    This is Real Freedom of Expression… Look carefully and read the Image & Comments!!!

    p.s. Nimmy, Can you get together a post on this with your views??

  2. @ Nimmy
    Agreed,but we are a part of the whole system and there is no point blaming the government.I disagree with her when Gargi says that Government is impotent-No,we the mass are the impotent ones,singing tunes to whims of every other rowdy or anti-social element round the corner.

    First of all, you should realize that all such rouge acts are because of that notion “We the Mass”.
    You and everyone of us must realize that we are individuals and not the mass. We should realize that we all have right to live and act and precept things freely.
    Now to explain this, I would like you to read this piece which I wrote after the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attack, The crowd mentality and Terrorism
    I am mentioning this because whatever happened with Sana was no less barbarous than what happened at Taj hotel. I am also mentioning this because it is quite common thing, even right now if you go out and ask people, you will get many people supporting or justifying the actions of Mangalore pub attack in some way or other, because of that crowd mentality, that inability of common man to stand alone, to have his own free decision about what is right and what is wrong, it is difficult for Indians to be Free individuals, they find themselves more like slave of the groups, caste, society etc. its a sociological disorder which can be and should be removed.

    Second thing is, Government is evil not because the people in government are not good.
    You can mention the most honest person you know, if you put him in Government authority he will become a bane.
    here I tried to explain this reality Impasse of Democracy
    I have discussed the Freedom of expression/speech and how it can be established and mentioned in that article, I have tried to explain what actually is freedom of expression is.
    Let me summarize it here again.
    it is your blog, it is your property.
    lets say I get angry at you for some reason (just assume please) and I start abusing in comments, what will you do? you will delete my comments, you will ban me from commenting on your site. That is, you will restrict my freedom of expression/speech and it will be justified. Why?
    Not because I was abusive, but because this blog is your property. Property right is the only way to define any other right like right of free speech.

    Spread awareness about facts facts facts.
    Agreed, so how much aware we are, you are?
    our constitution which was copy-pasted from UK constitution is rouge and full of anomalies and contradictions. But that is another issue.
    First of all you need to ask yourself how free you are, because if you are not free, how can you have freedom of speech?

    Anyways,I for one, am determined to break through the shackles and be free, as i know i am not free yet.

  3. Once again, problem is not religion or religious fundamentalism, nor it is the hypocrisy of sects, problem is the politicization of religion, economy and individual liberty and making it slave for group politics and paradox of welfare, problem is government.

    Until government wont be limited, until government wont be made the slave/server of the Individual citizen each and every citizen, things won’t change.

    Those hooligans are not a problem, problem is government.

    How easily Nimmy blamed the police, why could not she understand that no police man was there at the time of incidence, but it really doesn’t matter.

    There were many common citizens in that mall where Sana was brutalized, there were many people in that pub too where the young girls and boys were beaten. Nobody opposed the hooligans, because they know, that those hooligans are not just hooligans but they are those who will easily gain political support, the power of government.

  4. Nimmy, as I wrote on Indyeah’s post, I am taking a break from this subject. 🙂

    However, I want to tell you how much i have admired the way all of you young people have discussed this subject. It is truly heartening to see this.

  5. The real problem that is lying with our people is they dont know for what reasons religions were created. They taught us how to live. Without doing that blaming on others will do no good. If we live by the way it was described in our religion that is the biggest good deed that we can do for our religion. Instead of that, preaching, bashing other people will never do any good for them or the religion they follow. That will only create the hatred feeling among the people.

  6. Nimmy, Thanks for putting this together. I think all of us in a way agree with some basic points and in the end everyone wants peace.

    I had some points in mind when I saw this post in the morning but now totally forgot. …blank. :))

    I get Ghajini-ized at times.

    ——————–

    lol..Ghajini-ized… 🙂 -Nimmy

    • Rathesh
    • February 12th, 2009

    “If we live by the way it was described in our religion that is the biggest good deed that we can do for our religion” 🙂 We are not going to get anywhere by this my friend. If we try to do something like that then we will require religion to spell out everything for us. This is where the interpretation . If you really respect the creator use his greatest gift “Human brain” and live your life insteading of going to Books for living your life

  7. Great post Nimmy! You rounded it all well in the end. Hey I know that you all are totally sick of the subject but what has freedom and religion to do with each other?

    I don’t know if you like fishes but I adore them and have a lot of them as pets. I had birds, squirrels and the like but released them all one day when someone pointed out that I’m caging them and taking away their freedom. But why still keep fishes you may ask. Ornamental fishes are bred in small tanks. They don’t know about the freedom. They have never been in rivers and oceans and seen more freedom. I’ve noticed the fishes run along the sides of small vessels when forced to stay while I clean their tank. So is not freedom directly propotional to the space what an individual has previously experienced?

    I saw Kanagu’s comment which states that, ….”The real problem that is lying with our people is they dont know for what reasons religions were created. They taught us how to live….”

    Dear Kanagu, did religion teach you to get up in the morning, have a bed coffee, read the Indian Express or Hindu, brush your teeth using Colgate or Close-up, have a whites only egg preperation and cornflakes mixed in milk for a healthy diet e.t.c? Religion and holy books only wrote about the life in the era when these books were written.

    These are just my views! Nothing to disturb but to consider.

    Keep Blogging!!

    • Rathesh
    • February 12th, 2009

    Gargi you are assuming that everybody are angry with these sort of things. Well I think you should ask around you will be really surprised when it comes to religion most of the masses only adheres to one religion fanatism. Most of it is reactionary with false sense of insecurity but it is always there irrespective of religion. So by a collective action nothing is going to be achieved. government still remains the best bet sad that our leaders are so incompetent !!

    • Aam Insaan
    • February 12th, 2009

    Freedom is a inner state of mind…

    “Government is impotent-No,we the mass are the impotent ones,”

    —One is merely the reflection of the other.

    • Chirag
    • February 13th, 2009

    Ha ha this is a good one the Thanks for putting all the thoughts together.

    • ambikaz
    • February 13th, 2009

    LEGAL NOTICE TO RENUKA CHOWDHURY FOR COMPARING MANGALORE TO TALIBAN

    Date: 11-02-2009

    To

    Mrs.Renuka Chowdhary,

    Minister for Women and Child Development,

    Government of India,

    New Delhi.

    NOTICE

    Under instructions from:

    i) Shri Ganesh Hosabettu, the Hon’ble Mayor of Mangalore City Corporation, Mangalore.

    ii) Shri Ramesh S, s/ o Late Vasu S, Prop. Shilpa Colour Lab, Karangalpady, Mangalore- 3. (Industrialist of Mangalore)

    iii) Shri Anwar Manippady, s/o MH Manippady, aged 55 years, High Point, Nanthoor, Mangalore. ( State Vice President, BJP)

    iv) Mr. Melwyn Fernandes, s/o Cyprian Fernandes, Kannagudde, Kulshekhar, Mangalore-5

    v) Mr.Hassan Sab, r/at Laadi, Moodabidri (President of Moodbidri Zone of ‘Yuvashakthi’)

    vi) Mrs.Nalini Y.Shetty w/o Yashodar Shetty, Gurupur, Mangalore representing Sthree Shakthi Groups of Mangalore)

    And several organizations and citizen groups,

    I hereby issue you this notice for your immediate compliance-

    1) You have issued public statement that ‘Talibanisation is happening in Mangalore’ and further that ‘Mangalore has been Talibanised’. You have further stated that ‘there is a clean communal divide in Mangalore where a Hindu girl is prevented from talking to a Muslim boy in Mangalore’.

    2) Your public statement has been widely published in several print and electronic media on 7th February, 2009 and 8th February, 2009 and on subsequent dates and the same have been widely published through out the country and the whole of Mangalore city is shocked to know the imputations levelled by you against its entire population.

    3) Mangalore is rich in its cultural heritage with several holy shrines of all religions. Mangaloreans are peace loving citizens. This city is famous for its educational institutions and religious tolerance. The people of Mangalore have been serving the nation in different ways and Mangaloreans are well known throughout the world for their honesty and integrity. Mangaloreans have boundless love for their motherland.

    4) The words ‘Taliban’ and ‘Talibanization’ refer to terrorists and terrorist groups based in Afganisthan. To every Indian citizen, ‘Talibans’ mean anti-Indians and anti-humans. These words ‘Taliban’ and ‘Talibanisation’ represent the most abusive and degradable form of verbal assault as far as Mangaloreans are concerned. For all the people of Mangalore whether Hindus, Christians or Muslims, calling them as Talibans is totally irreligious and offending their religious feelings and beliefs. All the citizens of Mangalore, irrespective of their caste and creed, hate Talibans and Talibanism.

    5) By your statements, you have thus degraded the entire community of Mangaloreans as anti-nationals by calling them as Talibans. This has offended the religious sentiments of the people of Mangalore.

    6) Moreover, being a responsible Union Minister, you have acted irresponsibly by calling the citizens of Mangalore as Talibans and deliberately wounded their religious feelings.

    7) From your similar repeated statements it is clear to my clients that with the evil intention of promoting enmity between different groups of people on the ground of religion and to disrupt the peace and harmony in society, you have made such statements.

    Your imputations are prejudicial to national integration because Talibans are admittedly opposed to India and Talibans proclaim that they are determined to destroy this Nation. By your assertions you have questioned the faith and allegiance of the people of Mangalore to their motherland; and by dubbing them as Talibans, you have cast assertions prejudicial to national integration. Your statements that Mangaloreans are talibanised and that Hindu girls are prevented from speaking to Muslim boys in Mangalore are totally false. Isolated and stray incident cannot be generalized to call the entire population of the city as terrorists. Your public statement has caused divide between Hindus and Muslims in Mangalore and they have started suspecting and hating each other and on account of your statement, feelings of disharmony, enmity and hatredness and illwill has arisen between Hindus and Muslims in Mangalore and thereby you have disturbed the communal harmony of the city. You have deliberately issued such statement with an intention of causing communal divide and thereby to reap political benefits.

    9) On account of your statements, the people from outside Mangalore have started looking down upon my clients and Mangaloreans as Talibans. You must be aware that your statement has degraded the entire Mangalore and also adversely affected the economic progress of Mangalore.

    10) As instructed by my clients, I hereby call upon you to withdraw the above referred public statement about Mangaloreans, and you are also called upon to apologize to the people of Mangalore by issuing suitable PUBLIC STATEMENT, within three days from today.

    11) On your failure to comply with the demand made in this notice, necessary legal proceedings including criminal prosecution shall be launched against you at your risk as to all costs and consequences thereof.

    (P.P. Hegde)

    Advocate

  8. Hello Biju,

    I doesn’t said about how to bath or brush because it will change with the change in technolgy and lifestyle.. what I meant is how we have to behave with others, the respect we have to give to our parents and neighbours and how to control ourself in times of anger.. like that.. I am seeing that way..

    Anyway thanks for your comment, else I couldn’t have explained myself here..
    Thank you 🙂

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