Dar al-Aman and Kaffirs..

Honestly speaking,I am hearing this word Dar al Aman for the first time.Lately,there have been news on Islamic seminary Darul Uloom Deoband issuing fatwas that India is a Dar al-Aman and that there shouldn’t be any jihad in India and that Hindus should not be reffered to as Kaffirs..

 

Islamic seminary Darul Uloom Deoband on Sunday said it regarded India as Dar al-Aman or a “Muslim-friendly country”. It ceased to be Dar al-Harb or hostile for Muslims with the end of British rule. “How can a country where you choose your own government be Dar al-Harb?” the seminary’s vice-rector Abdul Khaleque Madrasi said, adding: “If VHP has doubts, a fatwa can be issued, provided the organisation follows the prescribed procedure for obtaining a religious edict.”

 

In Islamic theology, geographical territories are often described as Dar al-Harb, Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Aman. The distinctions have been crucial in Muslim thought and action, said Qari Mohammed Usman, one of Darul’s senior-most teachers.

 

Dar al-Harb literally means “abode of war” or territory that is not under Islamic law and, if threatening to Islam, can be brought into Islam’s fold by jihad.In contrast, Dar al-Islam denotes territory under Islamic law, he said. Dar al-Aman or “abode of peace” is used to describe territory that is not under Islamic law but where Muslims can live in peace and harmony without interference in their practice of Islam.One example was India, Usman said.[source]

 

 

A major Muslim body has opposed Hindus being dubbed as `kafirs’ and pointed out that though the term does not have any derogatory connotations, it should be avoided to promote understanding between the two communities. “Strictly speaking, the word `kafir’ only means someone not belonging to Islam; but if its use hurts anyone the term should be avoided. Naumani said the idea of India as a hostile country had been part of the anti-British struggle during the Raj. “That concept is no longer relevant, it is now Dar-ul-Aman,” he said.

 

Explaining the change in the assessment of India by the Islamic school, Naumani said, “If Muslims get elected through a democratic process and can hold important positions, how can India become a hostile land.” He said Deoband had not yet received Singhal’s letter. “We will reply to it as and when it reaches us,” he said.

 

While reading this,Kislay Chandra came to my mind,he is the one I have seen who is very irritated with the word ‘Kaffir’. 🙂 .It is just an Arabic word that means non muslim.But that said,I know that some people (muslims) use this word every now and then and maybe thatz why others feel offended.And in that case,muslims should refrain from using such words that may hinder inter-faith relationships.My advice to muslims-don’t use this word unnecessarily and out of context..My advice to non muslims don’t take offence over a single word.Life is more beautiful than to be spoiled over a petty word.You don’t belive in Allah,do you? When you don’t believe in my God,aren’t you a disbeliever to me?Am I not a disbeliver to you? How complicated is that to understand and assimilate? I don’t know,some people take life and small stuff like this way too serious..Stretch your minds and hearts a little more-stop calling others kaffirs, and stop getting offended at a word..

 

 

AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

Total Verses: 6

Revealed At: MAKKA

 

109.001

YUSUFALI: Say : O ye that reject Faith!

PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!

SHAKIR: Say: O unbelievers!

 

109.002

YUSUFALI: I worship not that which ye worship,

PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;

SHAKIR: I do not serve that which you serve,

 

109.003

YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.

SHAKIR: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:

 

109.004

YUSUFALI: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.

SHAKIR: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,

 

109.005

YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

SHAKIR: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

 

109.006

YUSUFALI: To you be your Way, and to me mine.

PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

SHAKIR: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

 

 

 

 

 

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  1. Brilliant post as usual! 🙂
    I agree… getting angry over one word is petty and childish…
    The world IS still a beautiful place 🙂
    And Allah is another name for God right? Please go ahead and correct me if I’m wrong here.
    So, when one says they believe in God – it means he/she believes in Allah also right?! So, really don’t know why anyone should take offence! 🙂

    Also, thank you for sharing so much information…

      • Nimmy
      • February 25th, 2009

      🙂 yup,thatz how I take it..Everybody in this world(except atheists) view God in their own way..Even among Muslims,for instance,some of them have extreme fear towards God,some of them have more of love,some of them see God as more of support system etc etc etc..I belive that God looks into intentions in the heart,than physical rituals.By doing mechanical namaz 5 times a day,you don’t become dear to God. If people are good at heart,they all are in the same boat.By throwing mud at each other,sitting in the same boat,people are drowning themselves.I hate the holier-than-thou attitude of some religious people,maybe it be muslims or christians or Hindus..People take offense at others comments,bcoz they have inferiority complex and is not fully sure of one’s own faith and beliefs…

  2. 😀 This word still pisses me off , if used for a person like , someone who does believe in God . Because from what I know , a kaffir is a non-believer in Allah . That is my only bone of contention . And glad to know that something reminded you of me . 🙂

      • Nimmy
      • February 25th, 2009

      🙂 Just think of kaffir as non follower of Islam,nothing more nothing less …

      • Just think of “Kafir” as those who do not believe in GOD, or do not believe that it is the same GOD for everyone

        ——————————
        .Nice to hear from you.But if Kafir is one who don’t belive in God,I ahve no wonder why people like Kislay,who belive in God ,feel offended when called a kafir -Nimmy

  3. really informtaive post Nimmy
    I had read this article but couldnt understand it in its totality…now I do:)
    thanks:)

    and to be very honest though I know the word kaffir means what you have described here(only came to know the meaning in college)but I, like Kislay ,thought it was some very offensive word that was like an abuse almost…(which goes to show how far I have to go in understanding certain things:))

    :)thanks((hugs)))

    • dhiren
    • February 25th, 2009

    sigh…

    • Milind Kher
    • February 25th, 2009

    Nimmy,

    Muslims need not really us the word kafir for Non Muslims.

    Ghair Muslim is the literal for a Non Muslim, which is a better word. BTW, we are the only people to use “Non” for somebody that follows a faith other than our own.

    You rarely find terms like Non Hindu, Non Christians etc. We increasingly need to judge people on their individual merit rather than judge them for the faith they follow.

  4. Good post, I personally feel uncomfortable with the concept of Dar al-Harb.It will encourage violence in the name of religion.
    In India all kind of Muslim sects are fairly free to practise their religion.That is not the case I believe in Pakistan [where Shias are oppressed] and Iran [where Sunni’s are supressed]. Correct me if I am wrong.

  5. Hi,

    I have not read the post, but I am sure it must be some great piece. And I had cursorily read your Smile Pinki post for which you deserve accolades. Running really short of time for some months now.

    Just stopped to say that these colours (orange)look really nice and the font size is bigger too; I didn’t know this theme had these options too! Or did you buy CSS upgrade?!

    Whatever, it looks really nice. The bigger font size is always a relief.

    Ciao!

    • Solilo
    • February 25th, 2009

    Another informative post. I have to agree with Kislay and Indyeah that I too thought ‘Kaffir’ was offensive. May be because the way it is used by some. Most things in religious books gets distorted and becomes offensive as time goes by.

    I read some of your old posts. Your yum recipes (you should have a food blog) and also one post where you hung a Christmas light and a cleric asked you to remove it. Aah!

  6. An insightful post definitely 🙂 I must now find your SMile Pinki post..because I have been incessantly searching over new info about it.

  7. Another brilliant and informative post Nimmy! I am glad you clarified this, I have also heard of this word creating misunderstandings … although I haven’t faced anybody using it.

    By the way, I have an anonymous commenter called Kaafir 🙂

    While your computer problems are solved, my laptop is becoming very hot and becoming painfully slow … need to do something about it.

    • Nimmy
    • February 26th, 2009

    Thanks you all for your comments..I agree that in course of time,many people use this word as somethign offensive or racist.. Sometime i ahve heard that ‘Paki’ makes pakistanis annoyed as they consider it racist..But i wonder isn’t paki short form of pakistani..Tamilians are sometimes called pandis,yes I know some people use it in a racist way.the best way to treat such people is to ignore them..If they see you getting offended,they will use it again..If you ignore then,they will feel pity at themselves and stop using it.. My point is,its just a word-take it as lightly as it is…

    @Dhiran,your sigh is disturbing 😦 I know i am not doing good by talking religious stuff,but there is no point in running away.Rather I choose to fight the current system.Atleast you few read it and will ahve real info of things around..

    @Milind,i just realized that I have been wrong and unfair by genralizing the world as muslims and non muslims..That isn’t the right way..I promise to never to use the word non muslim again in my life…

    @Charakan,of course it is offensive and dumb to say that India is against muslims..Hardly any places in India tell others ‘No,you can’t pratice your religion”..Other issues as riots happen everywhere in the world..To me,India is the best place in this world..But Charakan,the whole of India is not as good as Kerala ..There are many places where muslims are seen as worms and are discriminated and fought against-just the same way hindus experience in Paksitan.Then again,what can we do..World is filled with people of different thoguhts and i just hope that people relaize and accept each others choices and agree to disagree..People from places like Kerala cannot understand communal issues in northern india..

    @Vikas,thanks 🙂 No,I didn’t upgrade.This is available in free features..No worries about comments..If you comment,I will be very happy-if not,if you are busy,just read and go 🙂

    @solilo 🙂 Did you like my food posts ????

    @Poonam,I ahve been reading all your posts but I wanted to follow up the Freedom of expression post..Maybe tomorrow or so…

    @IHM , Even I never used it or even heard others calling each other so in real life..But yes,I ahve seen in some discussion forums..Some people are irritating..Rather than spoiling your mood over their comments,it is better for us to move on with our life bcoz such people don’t deserve our attention and time…

    Grr,i hate it when pc goes slow.. Attimes i use my husband’s laptop and it drives me crazy as it is slow compared to my desktop..Maybe it is bcoz i am not used to it,but I prefer desktops..Get your laptop polished soon,there is no life without pc’s 🙂

    Good day to all

    • Charakan
    • February 26th, 2009

    Nimmy you did not reply to my point on sunni shia problems in pakistan and Iran. Is my impression stated in my comment true?

    • Solilo
    • February 26th, 2009

    Of course I loved your food posts and that’s why I asked you to start a food blog if you have time. I had one 2 years back and was part of dining hall where all food bloggers posted. Due to lack of time I had stopped there. Also taking pics is a pain.

    Some of my dear friends are still active food bloggers like jugalbandi.info and sigsiv.com.

    Then there are some who aren’t close friends but mat them through blogging. I still follow their food blogs for kerala recipes. one is malluspice.blogspot.com for yum non veg recipes esp. malabari and other is kitchenmishmash.blogspot.com for yum kerala christian recipes and in general she is GOOD.

  8. I think often the word itself is not offensive but the way it is used! I am not referring to any incident or even the word Kaffir, but just speaking generally.

    • Sainudheen
    • February 27th, 2009

    Asslamu alikum,

    Nimmy you travelled deeply to find out truth,
    see u done very good thing instead of following any third right politician’s comments.

    we are enimies of those,Which we are not aware.
    And we have some hard barrier inbetween us,
    The country will be in atmost level of harmony ,peace and prospericy when destroying this barrier only.

    • Nimmy
    • February 27th, 2009

    @Charakan,of course i agree with you,i thoguht you got it from my reply.. I always maintain an attitude that it is best when muslims are in a minority,not too low,but as like in India,otherwise,they would start fighting over petys tuff happened 1400 years back..Whereas in places like India,they are more bothered about common idendity..

    @solilo,wow,please give me the url of that blog.. I have come across the blogs you mentioned..I love kitchenmishmash and malluspice..Jugalbandi is more of kinda complicated food..lol But they are jsut superb..Restart the blog…. 🙂

    @Nita,i agree completely..Its now what you say.but HOW you say that makes the difference 🙂

    @Sainudhenn,thanks a lot for your comment..And yes,welcome to my blgo..
    Yes,ignorance is our enemy..The main problem is that people are not ready to accept that fact that they know nothing and are biased and ignorant..Those who talk to them are branded modernists and out of way muslims..I hope you read more here and share your views 🙂

    Good day to all

      • Sainudheen
      • February 27th, 2009

      I would like to invite your serious attention,that word “KAFIR” does not use as non belivers in meaning any where in “Qur-Aan”.

      During the Preaching of prohet Muhammed (SAW) significant part of Christian,Jews,Majoosi,paganism(or some) other and so many other tribes(SOME OF THEM WORSHIPPED WITH fIRE OR sUN) are there with indepented view about god.

      The prophet and “Qur-Aan” call them as “AHLU KITHAB’ (The people of Old testmment) and you can see an invitation in “Qur-Aan”.

      You can read it like this “O Ahlu kithab come together on commen term”.

      It means Come together to discuss and work out what ever mentioned similiar in Qur-Aan and your holy scripts.

      This word “KAFIR” used to some people especially Abujahil and some others also.

      The most of them are blood relatives of prophets.

        • Sainudheen
        • March 1st, 2009

        Nimmy u did’t reply for me regarding the statement metioned aove.

        —————————-

        Sorry brother.Actually I am hearing this information for the first time and hence i wanted to read more and share my thogughts on it,and thatz why i delayed replying to you..But I didn’t get time..thanks a lot for the information and i will surely read more..Refering Prophet’s relatives to Kafirs..interesting… -Nimmy

          • Sainudheen
          • March 2nd, 2009

          Assalmua likum,

          thank you for your reply and best wishes.

          I request you be to friend of truth by reliable and relevant source instead of being enemy from wrong information.

          Spreading wrong information never a solution for anything.

          ——————-

          I am confused!! Can you please tell me what is the wrong information in the post? Please tell me,so that i can correct.Insha Allah,I hope to strive for the truth and do point out my mistakes…Salam -Nimmy

            • Sainudheen
            • March 3rd, 2009

            Thank u for your positive reply and intention for creative debate.

            Let god bless all of of us.

            I don’t point out particularly you,say it commonly.

            Can you tell what you mean it by this words I found it on Feb-27 comments.

            “..Those who talk to them are branded modernists and out of way muslims”

              • Nimmy
              • March 3rd, 2009

              🙂 ok..

              See brother there are many things in our current muslim world,that i strongly disagree with.But when i talk to learned people,I have a feeling that they are so reluctant to accept knowledge that are new to them..Just an instance..

              Brother,there is no stoning to death in Islam..I am not a submitter or Quran only or a hadith-rejector or whatever you call it..Yet,I find it so hard to accept that a verse sent down by Allah was eaten by a goat..duh.. The basic foundation of Islamic belief is that Quran is complete and unaltered..But we,muslims are gone way far from all such solid belifes..Again,Allah doesn’t tell us to stone forcinators,but we muslims do so?If it had been,Allah would not have talked about their repentence and adulters marrying adulters alone..

              If we were to add and delete stuff from Allah’s laws,what is the whole point? I have writtn my views on this -Under Islamic Thoughts..If you disagree with me,or you find that i amw rong,please do point out when you get time to read it.. I am ready to correct myself and apologize in public if i ahd gone wrong..

              Ok,so my point was,I have been labelled as non -muslim,hadith rejector (and therevy out of islam) US undercover spy ,bla bla bla..I have stopped worrying about what others label me,and I hope that Allah will know my intentions and I pray to him to forgive me if i am wrong..

              Salam

              p.s: You may reply in a new comment thread as to ensure readability..

                • Sainudheen
                • March 4th, 2009

                Please consider the thing on positive manner,each and every matter natuarelly included with postive and negative nature.

                As Islam is an Ideology and muslims are the followers of it,you cant’t blame islam because of any wrong statement or activity done by individual or group of muslims.

                we muslim passed away many rises and falls in it’s history more than any other religion in the world.the past tragedy is still behind us as wrong followers or enemy on glass root.

                When we consideering muslims,It is not led by unique leader ship just as any other religion such as pop for cristian,sagh parivar for hindus,sionism for jews etc—-

                We are scattered after II world war so,still comunity are just an orphan so it led to any one can harass them physically or idelogically.

                Eventhough still islam is alive even bombarding by enemies those are involved purposely or not,

                this is not a single incident you can see many similiar incident in the history,Same as how the prophet Musa (AW) born and bought up in the palace of firoun(Pharao).

                —————————-

                I am not really sure of what this particular comment has in relation to our discussion..Yes of course i know that problem is not with Islam as an ideology,but with muslims who try to act more smart than Prophet(pbuh) and Allah himself..It would be great if you replied to the issues i raised in my last comment.and yes,thanks a lot for your open mindedness and patience..Salam -Nimmy

                  • Sainudheen
                  • March 5th, 2009

                  yes, off course this is related to our discussion.

                  If u feel it not because u raise No of comments instead of talking one by one.I am not scolar or intellectual in islam and related things.

                  But i am ready to talk with my level.

                  • Sainudheen
                  • March 9th, 2009

                  yes, off course this is related to our discussion.

                  If u feel it not because u raise No of comments instead of talking one by one.I am not scolar or intellectual in islam and related things.

                  But i am ready to talk with my level.

                  • Sainudheen
                  • March 29th, 2009

                  y my friend no more discussion,
                  I think u will point out any specific matter instead of telling all at a moment.

  9. 009.028
    YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
    PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.
    SHAKIR: O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

    009.029
    YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
    SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

  10. AL-TAWBA (REPENTANCE, DISPENSATION)
    Total Verses: 129
    Revealed At: MADINA

    009.002
    YUSUFALI: Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
    PICKTHAL: Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance).
    SHAKIR: So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

    YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
    PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    009.006
    YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
    PICKTHAL: And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.
    SHAKIR: And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

  11. When I read about that in last week’s newspaper I didnt understood that clearly. Thanks for the info. I dont know why people were confusing… I hope that the day they believe there is only one god and we are addressing him/her by different names, the whole problem will be solved. A wonderful post Nimmy 🙂

    • Aam Insaan
    • February 28th, 2009

    Kaffir
    Kaf”fir\, Kafir \Ka”fir\, n. [Ar. k?fir infidel, pagan, fr. kafara to be skeptical in religious matters; — a name given to certain infidel races by the Mohammedans.
    (a) One of a race which, with the Hottentots and Bushmen, inhabit South Africa. They inhabit the country north of Cape Colony, the name being now specifically applied to the tribes living between Cape Colony and Natal; but the Zulus of Natal are true Kaffirs.
    (b) One of a race inhabiting Kafiristan in Central Asia. [Spelt also Caffre.]

    kaf•fir also kaf•ir (kāf’ər)
    n. A tropical African variety of sorghum (Sorghum bicolor) grown in dry regions and in the Great Plains for grain and forage. Also called kaffir corn.
    Kaffir or Kaf•firs also Kafir or Kaf•irs
    1. Offensive
    A Xhosa.
    often kaffir Used especially in southern Africa as a disparaging term for a Black person.
    2. Kafir A Nuristani.
    3. also kaffir Islam An infidel.

    [Arabic kāfir, infidel; see giaour.]

    kaffir
    1790, from Arabic qafir “unbeliever, infidel, impious wretch,” with a lit. sense of “one who does not admit the blessings of God,” fromkafara “to cover up, conceal, deny.” Technically, “non-Muslim,” but in Ottoman times it came to be used almost exclusively for “Christian.” Early Eng. missionaries used it as an equivalent of “heathen” to refer to Bantus in South Africa (1792), from which use it came generally to mean “South African black” regardless of ethnicity, and to be a term of abuse since at least 1934.

    ————————–

    Oh,I just knew all these complicated information..But i don’t think that people who take offense at this word,nor do the people who use it,know the meaning in complete..Some people are just wreckless in using it and some are silly enough to get offeneded.If you don’t like the word,when somebody talks to you that way just reply ‘Get lost ‘..As simple as that.. -Nimmy

      • Aam Insaan
      • March 1st, 2009

      Nimmy
      — Neither are the ones who use this derogatory kafir term on others naive or just plain ‘reckless’, it’s implication is well known & the motives too nor are the one’s on the receiving end silly enough to be simply offended — History stands testimony to the bloodbath of the ones on the receiving end..

      ———————————.

      In that case,I think i am unawre of the history.But Aam Insaan,I was not being one sided..Didn’t i ask muslism not to use the word? Then again,you just can’t change some people and to them the only solution that works is -ignore -Nimmy

        • Aam Insaan
        • March 2nd, 2009

        nimmy

        the term is not an individual disorder – it’s a globally social disorder in need of immediate remedy – sadly it’s the common muslim populace of iraq / afghanistan bearing the brunt of it & innocent victims of blasts globally, whose death are justified by the perpretrators under the context of the ‘understanding’ of this very word.

    • nik
    • March 1st, 2009

    Hi,
    I have read the two posts you have indicated above. Regarding verse 9.5 mentioned above you have said it is in the context of a battle . But there are quite a few other verses along similar lines.

    9.29
    SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    There are other verses which describe non-Muslims as animals or beasts.
    8.55
    SHAKIR: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

    98.6
    SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

    Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to “panting dogs” with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. Verse 7:179 says they are like “cattle” only worse.

    Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. Verse 2:65 continues the theme.

    In your posts above you have said that you believe each person will be judged according to his/her deeds irrespective of him being Muslim or non-Muslim.

    But verses 22.19-22.22 say
    But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.

    Verses 18.103-18.106 say
    Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds? Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works? They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.

    How do you explain these verses?

    Also in your posts you have said that you believe Quran is the word of the God. I disagree with you. Will word of the God permit such practices ?

    1) Wife Beating
    4.34
    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    2)Slavery
    23.6
    SHAKIR: Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,

    33.50
    SHAKIR: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her– specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    3)Gender Inequality
    2.82
    “And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women”

    4.11
    (Inheritance) “The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females

    2.228
    “and the men are a degree above them [women]”

    4)Sex with minor
    65.4
    SHAKIR: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

    I would also like to know your views about the Prophet. Do you think that his life should be an example to be followed by everyone?

    I look forward to your response.

    ——————————————————

    Hi Nik,welcome to my blog… 🙂 You have asked a ton questions,many of them-wife beating,testimoney equality and more have already been discussed . Please refer to ‘Islamic Thoughts’ category .. Will talk about other verses soon ,after this post on dresses..Keep coming -Nimmy

      • nik
      • March 2nd, 2009

      I have gone through those posts. I will reply to those as well after seeing your response to this post.

        • nik
        • March 8th, 2009

        Hi Nimmy,
        This is in regards to your post about testimony and gender equality.

        Please read the explanation about the testimony given in the Sahih Bukhari

        Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
        Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

        Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o ‘Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

        Gender ‘Equality’.
        Consider these two verses

        4.34
        SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

        02.223
        SHAKIR: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

        You have written posts about some other aspects in the Islamic Thoughts category. I will respond to them as well in due course.

        ——————————————-

        sorry for late reply Nik..My next main post will be on this..Thanks for the patience..But please remember that I am a least informed person and not a scholar 🙂 -Nimmy

          • nik
          • March 11th, 2009

          But I hope you will be objective in your analysis.

  12. First-ly, concurring with Milind above and Nimmy’s consequent acceptance,
    I think the word “Kafir” should be taken as opposite of “Mu’min” (Believer in GOD and believer that it is the same GOD for everyone) and not as opposite of “Muslim”(which as Milind said should be “Gair-Muslim”)
    I havent however been into the philosophical details of what is the difference between “Muslim” and “Mu’min” (both in theory and practice)

    I do not remember I have come across terms like “Dar-Al-whatever” anywhere in the Qur-an. The fact that regions have been chosen to be annotated in this manner, clearly proves that it must have started as political exercise.

    Another thing that comes across in the course of an inter-faith dialog is the intent of the participant, whether it is conciliatory (seeking to find a solution/common ground) or conflict-ist(seeking to prove a point).
    People with the second attitude would love to go about calling non-muslims as Kafir, because they know it irks people off.

    @Aam Insaan : Words change meaning with time as languages evolve : e.g. Haram = prohibited–>bast**d, Gulam = Son–>Servant

    @Aam Insaan and Ethis : I would recommend you to get a hard copy of YusufAli’s English translation of the Quran, which has both commentary and foot-notes, which explain a lot about the context of the verses, more than what you could get from a simple online version.

    ——————————————


    Hey,nice point about ‘Words change meaning with time as languages evolve ‘..I agree with you..Some goods words ahve been evolved into offensive ones and some others vice versa.. -Nimmy

    • Aam Insaan
    • March 2nd, 2009

    Khalil Sawant

    —Scholarly pursuit is not my interest – it doesn’t matters how much words evolve, what does matters that human’s should evolve or all changes are plain mental gymnastics & would be twisted as ‘haram’.
    even i have a reccomendation- seek a true advanced learned teacher & ask him to explain the word ‘jihad’- rest shall fall into place.

    • Milind Kher
    • March 5th, 2009

    Khalil,

    A Muslim is one who professes Islam verbally, and generally deposes as a Muslim.

    A Momin is one who actually believes. Hence the Holy Prophet (SAWA) is directed in the Holy quran (49:14) to tell the bedouins not to call themselves Momins, but to rather say that they were Muslims, because in God’s words (to them), “faith hath not yet entered your hearts”

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