The drama of divorce over phone,email and SMS..

Oh yeah,the Chand-Fiza love story(read high voltage drama) has made a breakthough by Chand ranting Talaq over Phone.. Earlier,there had been a report that the number of Phone-divorces and SMS- divorces are on an increase in India..Bravo Indian Muslim men,go ahead and divorce your wife..not as Allah told you,but as Mullah told you..

Duh,what a cliché- Phone/SMS divorce!! Aren’t the mullah’s smart enough to reform Sharia to suit their horny and chuvanistic needs?? But oh well,all you women stay away and don’t ask for any reform because if you do so,you are out of fold of Islam ,its just men who can add and subtract and divide and mutiply. Men can vomit words ‘Talaq talaq talaq’ and get away from women but a woman has to undergo a cumbersome and tiring procedures to get one,too much of justice and fairness uh?

Triple talaq is banned in almost all countries,even in those nations that have majority muslims and those that are branded ultra conservative and most of them have polygamy either prohibitted or highly contolled through legal and administrative procedures…But oh well,India is a free nation and ‘holy’ men in Muslim board are holier than the rest in almost all parts of the world and hence they are very particular that they stay smart than the rest. Allah has laid down clear cut rules and procedures for divorce,though Talaq is the most hated one and only to be resorted to as a last choice. But oh well, Indian mullahs don’t care much for Allah,actually,they are more smart than Allah,so they put up their own rules and imposed it on wormy-women like me. I wonder how many among muslims know that they are not following Allah’s Islam, but Mullah’s Islam..

I don’t want to ruin my mood and waste my time over such shitty people.But neither can I let go it just like that ,as it affects millions of women like me. Men who divorce through phone or SMS are better got ridden off ,as they are not worth anybody’s time and love and care. Is there a way I can get out of this CURRENT FORM of Sharia and be someone under common law? If even after 60 years,so called scholars can’t make it right,I don’t expect them to do it anytime . Shame on all you so called moderate or enlightened muslims.Shame on all you muslim men who watch and enjoy the show.May all of you burn in hell,always ,for not speaking up against injustice and for not trying to set things right in front of your eyes. Duh,on what grounds does this grevious matter end up as a fememnst one and that only Alla India Muslim Women Board is expected to talk about it? Don’t you have mother ,sister or a daughter?  If you has taken some effort to put such things right, you would have been admitted direct into heaven for jihad against injustice.. But oh well,you are not interested in reforming your own society,but is rather interested in pointing fingers ate teenage pregnancies and forcinations in America.. Live in fool’s paradise,until you make it to rotten hell…

Sorry for my crap rant,but I just can’t take it how hypocritical majority muslims are.. Now,for those who are interested, read below on how divorce is stipulated as per Allah’s words..And for all you champions of SMS/email divorce read the article that explains the legal (islamic) and moral aspects of this sort of divorce… “The Legal and Moral Dimensions of Talaq by SMS-A Critical reading..”

Divorce must be resorted to only in exceptional circumstances. The laws relating to divorce together with the relevant verses from the Quran are given below:

  • Appoint an arbitrator

[4:35] If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

  • Wait 4 months cooling off before divorce

 [2:226-227] Those who intend to divorce their wives shall wait four months (cooling off); if they change their minds and reconcile, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful. If they go through with the divorce, then GOD is Hearer, Knower. If the estranged couple chooses separation they must go through with it equitably.

 There must be two equitable witnesses witness the divorce before GOD

[65:2] Once the interim is fulfilled, you may reconcile with them equitably, or go through with the separation equitably. You shall have two equitable witnesses witness the divorce before GOD. This is to enlighten those who believe in GOD and the Last Day. Anyone who reverences GOD, He will create an exit for him.

  •  Divorced women to observe an interim period

[2:228] The divorced women shall wait three menstruations (before marrying another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of pregnancy,) the husband’s wishes shall supersede the wife’s wishes, if he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as obligations, equitably. Thus, the man’s wishes prevail (in case of pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

 [65:4-5] As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him. This is GOD’s command that He sends down to you. Anyone who reverences GOD, He remits his sins, and rewards him generously.

  • Exception for observing interim period

[33:49] O you who believe, if you married believing women, then divorced them before having intercourse with them, they do not owe you any waiting interim (before marrying another man). You shall compensate them equitably, and let them go amicably.

After the fulfilment of the interim the divorced women is free to do whatever she wants Although the following verse is in context of widows, it appears to be applicable to a divorcees too.

You Shall Observe the Pre-Marriage Interims

[2:234] Those who die and leave wives, their widows shall wait four months and ten days (before they remarry). Once they fulfill their interim, you commit no error by letting them do whatever righteous matters they wish to do. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

[2:235] You commit no sin by announcing your engagement to the women, or keeping it secret. GOD knows that you will think about them. Do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to discuss. Do not consummate the marriage until their interim is fulfilled. You should know that GOD knows your innermost thoughts, and observe Him. You should know that GOD is Forgiver, Clement.

  •  Divorced women have to be provided for.

 This is probably one of the abused laws in the Quran. But God holds us responsible for our innermost thoughts. If one observes God’s laws then God makes it easy for him / her.

[65:7] The rich husband shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that GOD bestowed upon him. GOD does not impose on any soul more than He has given it. GOD will provide ease after difficulty.

  • Alimony For Widows and Divorcees

 [2:240] Those who die and leave wives, a will shall provide their wives with support for a year, provided they stay within the same household. If they leave, you commit no sin by letting them do whatever they wish, so long as righteousness is maintained. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

 [2:241] The divorcees also shall be provided for, equitably. This is a duty upon the righteous.

  •  Compensation when marriage is not consummated

Breaking the Engagement

[2:236] You commit no error by divorcing the women before touching them, or before setting the dowry for them. In this case, you shall compensate them – the rich as he can afford and the poor as he can afford – an equitable compensation. This is a duty upon the righteous.

[2:237] If you divorce them before touching them, but after you had set the dowry for them, the compensation shall be half the dowry, unless they voluntarily forfeit their rights, or the party responsible for causing the divorce chooses to forfeit the dowry. To forfeit is closer to righteousness. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. GOD is Seer of everything you do.

  • Divorced women entitled to stay in the same house she stayed before divorce

Do Not Throw the Divorcees Out Onto the Streets

 [2:231] If you divorce the women, once they fulfill their interim (three menstruations), you shall allow them to live in the same home amicably, or let them leave amicably. Do not force them to stay against their will, as a revenge. Anyone who does this wrongs his own soul. Do not take GOD’s revelations in vain. Remember GOD’s blessings upon you, and that He sent down to you the scripture and wisdom to enlighten you. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is aware of all things.

[65:6] You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child.

  • Divorce can be retracted twice:

In other words, if the couple reconciles after the first divorce and wish to be husband and wife again, they can re-marry. This is allowed for two divorce only. If the couple divorces third time they have to observe God’s commandment in 2:230 (quoted below.) God makes it not-so-easy for the couple to divorce. This law serves as a deterrent for those who want a divorce for the third time and they would be very careful to take this step.

[2:229] Divorce may be retracted twice. The divorced woman shall be allowed to live in the same home amicably, or leave it amicably. It is not lawful for the husband to take back anything he had given her. However, the couple may fear that they may transgress GOD’s law. If there is fear that they may transgress GOD’s law, they commit no error if the wife willingly gives back whatever she chooses. These are GOD’s laws; do not transgress them. Those who transgress GOD’s laws are the unjust.

[2:232] If you divorce the women, once they fulfill their interim, do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands, if they reconcile amicably. This shall be heeded by those among you who believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is purer for you, and more righteous. GOD knows, while you do not know.

 [2:230] If he divorces her (for the third time), it is unlawful for him to remarry her, unless she marries another man, then he divorces her. The first husband can then remarry her, so long as they observe GOD’s laws. These are GOD’s laws; He explains them for people who know

Also note the words “It is not lawful for the husband to take back anything he had given her.” in 2:229.

  •  In case there is a baby during the interim:

 If during the observation of the interim period it is discovered that the divorced women is pregnant then as stated in 65:4 the interim ends upon giving birth. God has decreed the following law dealing with the infant:

[2:233] Divorced mothers shall nurse their infants two full years, if the father so wishes. The father shall provide the mother’s food and clothing equitably. No one shall be burdened beyond his ability. No mother shall be harmed on account of her infant, nor shall the father be harmed because of his infant. (If the father dies), his inheritor shall assume these responsibilities. If the infant’s parents mutually agree to part, after due consultation, they commit no error by doing so. You commit no error by hiring nursing mothers, so long as you pay them equitably. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is Seer of everything you do.

  • Under what conditions can a woman divorce her husband.?

 Whichever party chooses for divorce must obey the laws as aforesaid. Normally divorce is mutually decided by the couple. If the aforesaid laws are observed, there could be a situation where either of the spouse may not give their consent but if the arbitrators from both the families decide that divorce is the best solution for the estranged couple then they would, nevertheless go through divorce. The divorce laws are applicable to both man and woman (4:35 and 2:237 indicate this) except that there are certain additional laws which a divorced woman has to observe.

 The following seem to be the only conditions where a believing women leaves her husband without observing the above laws. In fact, I think in this case even a formal divorce is not required under Quran. However if the law of the land requires a formal divorce then one must follow suit.

 [60:10] O you who believe, when believing women (abandon the enemy and) ask for asylum with you, you shall test them. GOD is fully aware of their belief. Once you establish that they are believers, you shall not return them to the disbelievers. They are not lawful to remain married to them, nor shall the disbelievers be allowed to marry them. Give back the dowries that the disbelievers have paid. You commit no error by marrying them, so long as you pay them their due dowries. Do not keep disbelieving wives (if they wish to join the enemy). You may ask them for the dowry you had paid, and they may ask for what they paid. This is GOD’s rule; He rules among you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

 

See how men has twisted the whole system and made it ultra sexist..Is there a way out? It is for the enlightened muslims to answer this question..

 

 

 

p.s : The only good outcome of the whole love story episode is that some sleeping borad members have started discussing this matter..

Chand-Fiza talaq: Ulema now talk of screening

I  didn’t compile the whole part so well..In fact it is taken from a website,but I am not providing the link as there are some wrong information too in the site. Internet is filled with different forms of facts,that it is hard to relaise which is right  and which is wrong. The verses above can be easily verified by using a Quran translation as the verse number is provided and it is completet accurate..

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  1. As you could see Nimmy, people whether following the god truly or not, they are ready to bend or break the rules whenever and wherever they want. They are not worried about that. Because we are living in a hypocritical world. So where can we find a true follower?

    ———————————-

    Maybe true follwers exist in theory alone I guess..But we can’t just get rid of responsibility by blamming it on human nature.If there are codes and rules,as like is our legal system,much of abuse can be controlled..Atleast,thatz much better than the current open zoo ** rolls eyes**** -Nimmy

  2. Nims,
    Sorry, did not read the technical details.
    However, I am for an Uniform Civil Code.
    And even if Muslims insist on practicing different law without an UCC, the rights must be available to both Muslim men and women equally.
    Regards,
    Sal

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      🙂 You may please read the bulleted small titles,as just to get an idea,so that next time you encounter a fanatic or an ill-informed person,you may tell them ‘No,its not that way’.. UCC is never to happen I guess 😐 ,For it to happen there should be a sea of change in attitude from all corners,which is highly unlikiely to happen in today’s disturned times…

  3. Nimmy, I don’t know much about the rules of Talak. Thanks for the info.

    This whole episode of Chand- Fiza marriage and Divorce is sordid in the extreme. To change your religion just to remarry- what a reason! And after all this they stayed together for only a month or so!

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      **sigh** I know Manju ..See,here Chand-Fiza in particular is not of much concern to us,as both of them are well-settled people in life and its their problem how they deal with life..Fiza knew that he is amrried with two kids and she made her choice. I wouls say that the concerned religious authority should have been more careful and smell fishy intentions..

      It just reminds me how easy if it for criminals to change name and religion -to whatever they want- and in the end it is ‘muslim’ terrorists .. Don’t you think all these conversions too should be under scrutiny ?

      I believe that people can change religion just like that simple bcoz of faith..there maybe many underlying reasons…

  4. Nimmy – Just saw your ‘new look’ – very different. As for the phone/sms/email divorce – as you have rightly pointed out – women seem to be with very few rights! I was surprised to read that India has more archaic rules that other countries.. I think it has to do with the fact that our politicians try to cater to these hardcore mullahs – for their votes and so will be very resistant to change any law that could incur the wrath of these holier that holy hardliners.. Great post!

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      Welcome back Smitha 🙂

      ha ha,’holier than holy’… mm,Even i just knew that in many matters,India is more conservative than Pakistan..They have moved far in many such matters,but oh well,they have the most sickest rule in the whole world-that a rape victim should bring 4 witnesses and i ahve read that mnay women who got raped are in jails,bcoz they couldn’t prove thmeslevs.How sickening.. So in all,no country is good in all..but anyways,India is the best among the many,but we could/should improve more…

  5. you said it Nimmy the words of mullah over Allah..
    and the Uniform Civil Code seems a better idea doesnt it?

    yes the moment women start speaking up ,they are branded feminists or its termed a women’s issue..I mean what the??

    the chand-fiza saga was so dumb and pathetic…and as Manju says changing one’s religion just to marry?

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      //..I mean what the??

      Oh yeah,thatz the way i too feel it..

      As Bones said, people think that polygamy is a luxury .Oh well,it is so today,but this is not the way or reasons for what polygamy was permitted for.. It was permitted to take care of war-born widows,orphans(just in case you fear that you can’t do injustice to their wealth ) etc etc..I wonder if even a 1% of men do it for those real reasons… **sigh***

    • Milind Kher
    • March 15th, 2009

    People converting just to marry twice is ridiculous. Try taking a 2nd wife in Iran, you will go crazy justifying to the Islamic High Court of Iran why you need a 2nd wife.

    While there is a Muslim Personal Law in India, there are no competent people to interpret and administer it.

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      🙂 It is so in Indonesia and many other countries.. Iran has moved forward a lot on women’s rights..But no country is good in all,is it ? Every country has its share of abuse and domestic violence and I have had reading on the speeches on Kohemeni’s 🙂

      And yes,MPL in India has sleeping( not real,but pretending sleep ) members

  6. I read this case some time back. I support Uniform Civil Code in India.

  7. This country seems to forget that women are voters too. But at least women should not forget that.

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      ** sigh** I agree,but you know IHM ,I don’t think that votes matters much to them.. I think women don’t really care and they just take all this as part of a whole pacakge called life..Otherwise,we would have seen a change by now-its been 60 long years,isn’t it?

  8. Great and brave Post Nimmy. The liberal Muslims should raise their voices against the Mullahs.
    A modern and Women friendly interpretation of Islam may be the answer.Insisting on uniform civil code may be counter productive

      • nik
      • March 16th, 2009

      Why would the uniform civil code be counter productive?

        • Rooney
        • March 16th, 2009

        Because Charakan’s Marxist leaders told him so!

        ———————–
        :p -Nimmy

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      I have not read on pros and cons of UCC,so I will not comment on it,but all I know is that

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      I have not read on pros and cons of UCC,so I will not comment on it,but all I know is that CURRENT FORM of Sharia is sexist .I fear that people are moving backwards..

  9. Don’t know much about Religion in there, I only know about Allah but what is a Mullah?

    It is just rude to break up with someone over the phone. It’s the work of a coward, of someone who is not brave enough to do confrontations. My previous boyfriend actually broke up with me over the internet. I think that’s worse than breaking up through SMS lol.

    It’s interesting to know that Quran says that one should wait for their interim. It is spoken in the Holy Bible of the Christians in the Old Testament but Christians don’t really follow it. Some are so unethical and morally incorrect. But some still abide by the tradition but they are very rare. Muslims really do follow the word of Good, what is written in the Quran so maybe they have more trust in God than the Christians which makes them hypocritical (like you said) to broke up with someone cheaply over the SMS.

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      🙂 Hi HalfCrazy,welcome…

      Mullah refers to muslim clergy ,particulary those who are fanatic.Not all scholars are Mullahs,in the sense I talk about.

      //It is just rude to break up with someone over the phone. It’s the work of a coward, of someone who is not brave enough to do confrontations.

      So true,they are not even worth a tiny but of love and care..

      Its not just Christins,but muslims,hindus ,atheists or no matter to which brand they belong to,some people are just sickening..

      I don’t know how to reply to the last part of your comment 🙂 But all I can say is that there is a huge bunch of hypocriticals among muslims-and about Christsins,I really can’t make a comment 🙂

      Do come again ..

  10. I am the person who is very happy with this Talaq..i mean chand and Fiza…..jaisa karoge waisa bharoge…when she got engaged with a amrried man, why didnt she think even once for his children or his wife? How can a woman break another woman’s home? Changing the religion for the sake of marriage is totally unacceptable to me, religion is a faith and shouldnt be taken so lightly and anybody helping them in doing so is also a culprit.

    • Why should the blame be entirely on Fiza?Didn’t Chand abandon his family?Fiza didn’t…

      • Same thoughts here.

        Why should the third party be blamed? Isn’t Chand the one who took wedding vows? Wasn’t it his duty ti fulfill it? The third angle didn’t take any sacred vows. Why is it always the outsider who gets blamed and the man goes scot-free?

        All laws are made to suit MCPs and that is why I hope for Uniform Civil Code in India. We call it a democracy but mostly it is jungle raj where every party is trying to satisfy the MCPs of all religions. I am sure all women support UCC.

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      Hi Renu ..

      As I replied to manju,,in an earlier comment,she knew what she is doing and she made her own choice. I will never support hese kind of things-all those extra marital affairs or polygamy or whatever ..If couple are unsatisfied with each other,divorce and free each other..The rest of the solutions are all temporary and unfair.

      Here,its not just Fiza,but as Bones told,Chand too is responsible.. Why didn;t he think of his wife AND TWO KIDS? Fiza was single and let us think that she was selfish,but what about Chand? How could he run away from his responsibilities?

      The msot siceking was Chand’s statement taht ‘My first wife is my homemaker,Fiza is my love” duh,what does that mean? Can I marry 5-6 men for each different qualities I like in them??

      And yes Renu,changing religion for the sake of marrying should by prohibitted.. They have least interest in Allah or Prophet..Remember Dharmendra and Hema malini?I wonder if they ever bothered to remember Allah ,once they got married in the name of Islam **rolls eyes**

      Do come again..

      • Yeah right! His first wife is a COOKER and second one is a LOOKER. He is the KING.

        I know about Dharmendra and Hema Malini. Seriously! converting just for petty reasons like this. I don’t think they even care about religion.

        ———————————]


        🙂 -Nimmy

        • nik
        • March 16th, 2009

        “changing religion for the sake of marrying should by prohibitted.”

        Why should it be prohibited? It is right of any person to follow the religion of his choice.

        ————————–


        But it bothers me when acts of these sickos hamper my peace of mind,as people like you start questioning me,instead of going and asking them about it. ..So I am bothered. -Nimmy

          • nik
          • March 18th, 2009

          As long as the opportunity is provided, people will exploit it. The way to stopping such incidents is reform and not prohibition.

          • So true..But we don’t expect criminals to reform,we just create laws..same should go here..They like it or not,law should be enforced…

              • nik
              • March 18th, 2009

              I meant reform of the laws. As the law stands today, the whole incident was legal.

              So which law should have been enforced in this case?

                • sameer
                • March 25th, 2009

                hey nik..

                There is a solution for you. the answer of your question just apply the islamic law here and punish him accordingly. because a person can not be a muslim while he have love Muhammed s.a.w. better than his life, parents and money and everything.

                Mr. narendra modi killed thousand of people with his team. they openly cut the muslims with the support of state property and police. the CM self accepted it in tahalka”.what is the punishment for him?? and which law will punish him?? what the law you will create for him???

                  • sameer
                  • March 25th, 2009

                  first clear yourself

                  than know about a religion

                  than examine

                  than

                  make questions please?

  11. You know… I agree with Renu…
    But, the information you have provided is also very informative! 🙂
    But, Talaq over the phone is just not right… I remember reading about a crickter doingt he same thing some years back – can’t remember though

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      🙂 Yes Pixie,divorce over phone or SMS or email is WRONG WRONG WRONG..I hope they issue a law making this stuff haram/illegal…

  12. I thought divorce over the phone/internet was illegal…Anyway, I think a Uniform Civil Code is in order and politicians who oppose it in order to retain their vote banks should realize that Muslim men are not the only voters – women vote too and I’m sure more Muslim women will vote for the party that gets the UCC through…Other politicians who support the UCC do it for the wrong reasons…One of the reasons given is that it is unfair that Muslim men should be ‘allowed’ multiple wives whereas Hindu men are not given the same luxury…These people view things from the male point of view and don’t think about the women…Why should they?They are men after all…

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      // women vote too and I’m sure more Muslim women will vote for the party that gets the UCC through

      I don’t think so Bones..I doubt how many muslim women know that THERE IS A WAY OUT..How many of them know that they don’t deserve this? When there is a try from Government to regulate things,people (read men) start ranting that ”OOOh aaa oooh,government is trying to crib our religious freedom and soverinity” and bla bla bla.. Read my post on what happened to Kerala marriage bill,which tried to regulate polygamy and divorce through courts..REAL MUSLIMS are suffereing in between fanatics and appeasing politicians who won’t /can’t do anythign against these fanatics ..

      My point was,when these so-called learned people rant that moves from Government is against their religion as such,women too fall for it and will enver vote for UCC..First step is to educate muslim women about their rights.. But not many will be interested in that,as it means end of oppression ..

      And yes,polygamy is a candy that attracts others to become a muslim ,no matter how bad reason it is for,..such abuse of laws should be stooped..Better late than never.. **sigh***

  13. Nik, Let me try to explain. All ppl supporting Nimmy here has the aim of providing justice to muslim women. We all respect each others religion. So in that back ground what we should do is to supportNimmy and other liberal Muslim’s campaign for implementation of women friendly and liberal interpretation of Islamic laws. Insisting on imposing on muslims (without such demand from with in ) a Govt made uniform civil code may weaken the muslim liberals standing and our purpose will fail

    • Why should Muslim men insist on a UCC?Their laws are loaded in favour of them…India is supposed to be a secular country – so why should there be a differentiation based on religion?

      • When asked ‘what is the meaning of secularism in India’ Nehru said ‘it is equal proection for all religions”. Independent India is following an unique form of secularism,which was essential for its survival as a Nation.
        Why there is more liberal Islamic laws in many other countries? Main reason I think is the Muslim clergy raising the “minority Islam in peril in Hindu India bogey” to thwart any attempt in reform. Imposition of UCC on a reluctant community may result in stiffening of resistance to reform..It is for the liberal Muslims to call the bluff of the clergy.

          • nik
          • March 17th, 2009

          Liberal Muslims will never be able to call that bluff. The government and the larger Indian society will have to do that.

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      Charakan,you can reply to individual comments by clicking the ‘reply’ button beneath each comment ..Comment threading is cool and will enable more readability..JUst telling,its your choice 🙂 (eg,see difference between seperate comment and the comment Bones made as a reply to yous)

      • nik
      • March 16th, 2009

      Uniform civil code will ensure justice and equality to all irrespective of their religion or gender. UCC respects all the religions. It is a fallacy to suggest UCC suppresses any religion.

      Have the liberal Muslims carried out any reforms so far? Even in this case , the Darul Uloom has said that the divorce is valid. Have the liberals done anything in this case?

      Apart from that, the bigger question is that why should there be different religion based laws in a secular country?

      • Nik,
        We know that the majority of Muslims including women are against UCC.Imposing something from outside leads to violent resistance. So to fulfill our noble intention of providing justice to Muslim Women we should join the liberals like Nimmy to implement a more women friendly Islamic personal law.When at least 50 percent of the community is ready to accept UCC we can campaign for UCC.[Nehru in 1951 delayed the tabling of Hindu code bill because the conservative Hindus were against it]As you know all citizens of India can marry under special marriage act and get all its protection.So meanwhile any liberal Muslim want to marry like that they can very well do so.

          • nik
          • March 17th, 2009

          “We know that the majority of Muslims including women are against UCC.Imposing something from outside leads to violent resistance”
          Is there any valid reason for the Muslims to oppose UCC? . Regarding the age old threat of violence, someday the government will have to call that bluff.

          “So to fulfill our noble intention of providing justice to Muslim Women we should join the liberals like Nimmy to implement a more women friendly Islamic personal law.”
          I completely support the liberals in their quest for just and equal laws. But have the liberals done anything so far? And do you think they are in any position to do anything about it?

          “When at least 50 percent of the community is ready to accept UCC we can campaign for UCC.[Nehru in 1951 delayed the tabling of Hindu code bill because the conservative Hindus were against it]”
          How will we come to know the time frame in which at least 50 percent support the UCC? The Hindu bills were legalized in 1955-56. Was there any sea change in attitudes of the conservatives in 4 years?

          “As you know all citizens of India can marry under special marriage act and get all its protection.So meanwhile any liberal Muslim want to marry like that they can very well do so.”
          This issue is not about special marriage act. It is about the unequal personal laws. And even then does the secular framework help the liberals? When the Supreme Court gave a just and secular verdict in the Shah Bano case , the conservatives forced the government to frame new laws.

          With such precedents will the liberals be able to reform the laws?

            • Nimmy
            • March 18th, 2009

            Is there any valid reason for the Muslims to oppose UCC?

            Which UCC are you talking about? Are you talking about hindu laws being enacted as common laws are you talking about formulating a common law based on discussing with all communites. ? If it is the former,I am against it and it it is the latter,I am for it. But as of today,is there any proposal or draft like that ?Since there is nothing of that sort,what are you pointing fingers at? Over an imaginary stuff? Let the draft or proposal come and then we can point fingers at each other.. UCC UCC UCC,where is UCC? How is it?

            But have the liberals done anything so far?

            It is because of the liberals that Indian muslims didn’t become as like Pakistanis,who have imported their wahabbi laws from Saudi Arabia ..Yes,atleast indian muslims don’t have such extremism of imposing hijabs over all women,men must grow beards etc etc etc..It is bcoz of liberals that muslims community is a free ( as opposed to being ultra conservative) .It is becasue of liberal that each time a riot happens,they forgive and forget (in general ) Ask a random sample of muslims,most of them will say that ‘Let go Babari Masjid and let us look forward”.. ( as opposed to some extremists who still rant about Afghan rule and muslim ruler’s cruelity,even after 500-600 years **rolls eyes** ) Extremists are there in all cross sections of the community,no amtter what brand of religion or caste they belong to.. Pointing finger are better done in front of a mirror ,isn’t it Nik ?

            Yes,what happened is cases like Shah Bano is indeed very sad,but years ahve moved on more and more people are becoming enlightened. For instance,over the last 2 years,I ahve known more and now I am passing the information to many more and the chain will continue .Let us hope that reforms will get accelerated.

            If UCC would put an end to all current issues,why isn’t anybody comeing up with it ?Isn’t it the law maker’s fault? How come random muslims like me are responsible for this? I have no idea why you blame muslims.. Thieves don’t like to have criminal laws,but do they stop us from legislating laws? Same goes here too..If law makers/politicians can’t do it,for the sake of their vote banks,it is their fault and responsibilty and stop pointing fingers at people like me.

            Nimmy

  14. Whoa! that’s a comprehensive listing of Islamic laws surrounding divorce. You are abng on when you say that mullahs have chnaged the rule to suit their game, but women must not let them get awaya with. Times have changed so gender-biased laws must changed too.

    Because of our votesr politics, in India, we have been unable to abolish polygamy, I have tried telling this many other people in past that many other progressive muslim countries have abolished polygamy. But who would listen to that here. 😦

      • Nimmy
      • March 16th, 2009

      Yes,Times have changed and more and more people,especially women ,are gainaing more and more information and knowledge.. Me, was not aware of any othese things until 2 years ago.. Just when I started readong and realizing how sexist and unfair the sytem is,each day is spent in a an enthusiasm to learn more and share more.. You know Poonam,how many (women ) have this privilege ..I guess only a handful.. Internet has made information easily available and I hope that more and more women start reading on authentic stuff and empower themselves with knowledge . If that happens,injustice and unfair moves will get weakened,atleast that is how i hope it to be…

      // But who would listen to that here

      **sigh** I agree..But we should not stop shouting Poonam..Sooner or later,our voice,our collective voice will be heard -LOUD AND CLEAR …

      🙂

    • Nimmy
    • March 16th, 2009

    When i read the post now,I am afraid if I did sweeiping generalization about Islamic scholars and if I disrespected those who did lot of good work and are real righteous ones.. I am sorry for generalizing,but the ratio of good to bad is small,atleast thatz how I have understood till now..If I am wrong,I apologize and no hurt is intended…

  15. Nimmy, this is a very informative post.

    The controversy has been engaging the attention of people like some soap opera. Sad! Whoever they be, there are human emotions involved. And, emotions don’t follow rules; nor can anyone else understand them.

    ——————————-

    🙂 True.. I agree..I would not have disected their love affair unless some religious aspect was involved..Now ,its said ‘Ah,muslims ahve crap laws,they can easily divorce though SMS and phone,how stupid these people are’ etc etc etc..So I made this post -Nimmy

    • Chirag Chamoli
    • March 16th, 2009

    Nimmy as said earlier, the law has always been written by people to underpin the weaker sections of the society, by weaker I mean with no rights, yep UCC may be a solution is not the solutions the solution is where attitudes change.

    ——————-
    So true Chirag … **sigh*** -Nimmy

  16. Good post. I could feel the anger in your words Nimmy! You have also written it really well, logically and giving all the facts. I agree that Muslims need to speak out against this. I have a feeling that most are against it, but for some reason are not speaking out. It’s as if these mullahs have a lot of power! And as for our weak kneed government, it too is afraid of them!

      • Nimmy
      • March 18th, 2009

      I have a feeling that most are against it, but for some reason are not speaking out

      Nita,how an people like me speak out ? I ahve no idea how they select people to Personal LAw Board.I tried to read,but not much info is available..People nominate their successors as and how they liek ti and there is no democratic process of election involved and hence all intellect educated muslims are kept out. In such a scenario,how are they expected to speak out and act? I will try to share more info on this.. -Nimmy

    • Milind Kher
    • March 16th, 2009

    Nimmy,

    Ayatollah Khomeini’s wife was called Khanom. He would cook breakfast for her every Saturday, and help with cleaning the house.

    Once he came home and asked, “How is Khanom?”. They offered to call her and he said, “Let her rest. Her back hurts”.

    These are facets of his life that the media does not like to touch upon – because it does not make good copy.

    ———————————-

    🙂 True,good matter aren’t of any interest to media..and hardly does one hear all this.. Thanks for sharing -Nimmy

    • Milind Kher
    • March 16th, 2009

    As for triple talaq, it is unislamic, and is called talak ul biddat.

    Talaq has to be pronounced separately in three states of tuhr and actually speaking three talaqs at a go can actually be counted only as one talaq.

    Muslim Personal law in India is not well drafted. Thre are other flaws too like allowing of zihar and lian, which is haraam according to the Holy Quran.

    • sameer
    • March 25th, 2009

    to accept any religion without knowing the rules of the religion is not good . and it hurts people’s feelings..

    what mr. chandra mohan has done shows that he is a person with no moral values

    if her sisters or relatives will be treated like this
    than he will wake up and surely feel sorry…….

    in total,, he is a wild animal, who is just enjoying his life without thinking about other people also have right to live..

    he didnot fulfill the criteria of “vasudhev kutumbakam”

    he is not able to show his face, but as no body has strenght to say him that he is doing wrong. he is thinking he is right..

    but almighty god will surely punish him

    akhir sab ko ek din jana to padta hi hai na chahe koi chahe ya na chahe…….

    it is the rule of GOD.. so people respect every one.

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