Posts Tagged ‘ modesty ’

Yeah,again a post on women’s attire

Blogosphere is reloaded with posts on “women’s dresses and individual liberty”..IHM has a great post here,Alankrita has a great one here,read Amrutha’s thoughts here..I have had infinite posts on this very same topic, but [please don’t throw stones at me] ,am I yet to make up my mind on this ?. My thought is simple “ If men can’t control themselves.why not I myself take care,as it is my life and my safety”..Ok,ok,I know that even purdah cladded women aren’t free from all this.But still,when in a group,is it not wise to dress as to go along with it rather than trying to stand out.Yes,everybody has individual choices and people may like to draw attention,and yes,I know that even then,”She asked for it” doesn’t hold true. That said,given that we know that there are perverts around us,why should we take the risk of drawing attention?

Yes,I know that modestly is relative and that wearing purdah won’t make you safe. But thatz not my point.When is a beach, a sari or lehanga will attract most eyes,whereas a swimsuit or bikini worn women may go unnoticed (depending on the level of decency of people around) Likewise,when in an office, a sari-nari will go unnoticed whereas a sleeveless-top lady will make many men smile. Ok,now you are asking me “Why should I sacrifice my comfort for the sake of others modesty/immodesty benchmark?” True,but why do we want to attract unwanted attention? Now you are going to tell me “What if all women wore sari/purdah/salwar? ” Oh well,perverts are going to find some reason no matter what,but atleast we  tried our part..Now don’t blame me that I am champion of “Blame the victim philosophy”.No,I am not,but I personally would take care to dress ‘along with the group’ and would advise the same to my baby girl so that very few eyes would fall on me…

I don’t know how true is it that men are turned on visually (I always wonder why men claim this as something to be proud of ..duh..) .There is no logic included in all this stuff..What describes a man’s attitude of raping a baby or a 70 yr old grandma..What is there in them that turns them on?But still they do it.As said many times earlier,rape and other molestations is not about sex,about about control and desire,desire to own,atleast for a moment. So I would like to live in a way that would make least (nil except my partner preffered) people would look out for me.So,does that me that I am going to live shut in a dark room? No,I want a life,but I am afraid of those men and women out there in the light,them who are sickos.. Can I claim my individual liberty,dress,walk and talk they way I want to and move around?.But can I do about and stop those sickos.. ? What do I do then?Until and unless we have a more secure social attitude towards women,I am not going to talk against such acts  like that in Kanpur ,especially because it deals with yound girls who are yet to perceive the truth of evil world…And all this doesn’t mean that I look down at those bold women who have it in them to choose their way of living,and be happy about it.But I will be put down by my dear’s pointing fingers that “You asked for it”..So I am not for all this liberal and individualistic way of life….

It’s a bad bad world out there  😦

p.s: My bad that I googled “Why should women dress modestly?”..I am more confused/irritated now….

Why to dress modestly for lasting relationshp and marriage

My Favorite Posts ..

Hi all,I just wanted to list out my favorite posts, just in case anybody would find them interesting and useful.Do go through them when you get time and keep sharing your thoughts .

Eazy Cooking!!

  1. Its a Pizza-a stove-top Pizza!!
  2. Tapiki ‘n’ Fish curry-the official food of kerala???
  3. Roll it all the way into your mouth!!
  4. Moringa/Drumstick Fry
  5. Fish Thoran
  6. Quick Vegetable Biryani
  7. “Pizza Dosa” or “Dosa Pizza”??
  8. Date ‘n’ Choco Fudge in 10 minutes
  9. Sprouted Green Gram/Cherupayar Thoran

Womanly-thoughts

  1. “Why do muslim women have to beg for their rights?”
  2. Do feminists ruin families?
  3. Why/why not should women dress modestly/provocatively?
  4. How easy is it to undergo a divorce?
  5. Feminism Tag..but Am I a feminist?
  6. How do we program the baby machine to output baby boys alone?
  7. How important is it for you,to remain faithful in your marriage?
  8. Winning the war-through women..
  9. How do I make his beard catch fire?
  10. Why are women enemies to each other?

Islamic Thoughts

  1. “No time to complain, time to be wise”
  2. “Slay all infidels”..Wow,is Quran so violent???
  3. “How do you, as Muslim, see me and others like me in the light of the teachings of the Qur’an?”
  4. War ethics ‘n’ rules in Islam..
  5. Am I,as a muslim,responsible for the acts of others muslims who interpret Quran wrongly & move around with bombs?
  6. The drama of divorce over phone,email and SMS..
  7. One Quran,but infinite interpretations..WHY?
  8. Living Ramdan,the Islamic way..
  9. “Muhammad was a pedophile..”
  10. Quran asks men to beat their wife!!
  11. Is this what Islamic polygamy is all about?
  12. Muslims hate Jews??????????
  13. Remembering Prophet Muhammad (and his multiple wives) on his birthday
  14. Stoning to death-How and Why is it a part of Islam?
  15. Fatwa Drama-Behind the curtain..
  16. Worship in space!

World Around

  1. Pragmatics between moral police and one’s freedom of expression
  2. Why does Government push Hajj subsidy down the throats of Indian muslims?
  3. Migrant issues – Qatar and Maharashtra,a comparison.
  4. History of Israel-Palestein conflict -as and how lightly my small brain process it.
  5. What went wrong with Pakistan as a nation?
  6. Why isn’t this ‘terrorism’, but just ‘communal-issues’?
  7. The unholy secrets and not-so-divine divinity of the church..
  8. Who decides the fine line between absolute and relative freedom of expression?
  9. What have you done so far,as to wipe out the menace of terrorism?

Random Rants

  1. Disclaimer..
  2. My lovely garden 😉
  3. Holding hands..for a lifetime.
  4. How do I control my anger before it controls me..
  5. Smile Pinki.. bringing smile to thousands of kids with cleft lips..
  6. Tagged – Soft,Melodious and Soulful songs..
  7. Tag-on various bits of my life…

Science

  1. The Weight Of The Human Soul
  2. Will your body decay if you RIP while in outer space?
  3. How much water would it take to extinguish the sun?
  4. “Diamond is forever”…Oh no…Its NOT…
  5. Biting nails;Biting fungus and dirt!
  6. Rate your fear of intimacy
  7. How do blind people dream?

Good day to all..

Conclusive thoughts on ‘provocative dressing’ ..

I just want to thank you all for your participation on this thread.. I have learned a lot,and every comment counts..I just want to highlight two comments ,that made lot of sense and struck the right chord in me..Alankrita and 1conoclast(he wrote this as a comment on IHM’s post)..Thanks again..

 

Alankrita said :

Nimmy, this is just to reply to your “do our part”. What is “our part”. What dress is provocative? Ankles? Knees? Short sleeves, short sleeved blouses- and how much cleavage? Is a Sari conservative? With the back and the shoulders bare? Is a salwar kameez good enough- and if so how should the chunni be draped? Over the head? Hair- Short? Long? Makeup- now that can be a turn on… so what is “non-provocative”? It is so difficult to define. And therefore just as abuse-worthy- if the “she was immodestly dressed, she provoked me” defense is to be taken seriously. Because what is “accepted” by some may not be by others.q

  And we are not even looking at things from the other point of view. Why is it that we never take into account how the way men may dress may be as “provocative”. You know, with 50% of the population men, that should be an issue too. So why isn’t it common to hear of women having heir baser instincts aroused by some man and assaulting him. Maybe, it is not so common because of the assumed privilege that men enjoy- women learn to “control” themselves. Men, well, it is always the woman’s fault.
I can understand why this conversation can be a reality- but when you really pare it down to the bare bones, you realize how inherently sexist the view is. Just replace “men and women” by different races or religions and “provocative dressing” by something else, maybe the right to walk down a certain street. It will immediately begin to seem very offensive. Living in a sexist society, we do not realize how completely sexist and “slut-shaming” assertions about “proper dress” or”decent behavior” are.

Indeed, this is a conversation I have heard several times. And quite often felt too that Miss B makes sense, but on deeper examination her attitude reflects just how completely she has been engulfed by a world view which inherently makes a woman inferior. Being careful is a good thing. But it boomerangs in that it breeds a degree of helplessness and lets the perpetrators go unpunished. It lets a lassitude creep into society, a tolerance for law breaking and it demonizes the other sex too. “Men are animals” is easy to say, but that is as bad a stereotype as “women are weak”. Be careful is excellent advice, but haven’t we heard it always? Careful in terms of what to wear, how to behave, whom to mingle with- and does it really help. As far as I know it serves to let crimes of harassment be trivialized, rape justified as “she asked for it” and a reckless lawlessness take over.
We cannot change everyone in society.We cannot make everyone view things our way. We cannot make people view the sexes as being equal. What we can do, however, is to call out on inherent misogyny when we observe it. We can also think deeply about issues we come across, even he very “compelling arguments”. And above all we can and should not keep curtailing our own freedoms just because perverts live in our society.

 

1conoclast said:

I said I’m on blogging hiatus & I intend to be, but I just had to correct the misconceptions that Ms. B has (& a few that the author has).

1. Idealism is what moves society ahead. Inventions, Discoveries, Art, Science, Laws, Civilization, everything comes from being idealistic. It’s called evolving.
Realism is an excuse for stangnation, for extinction. No planes would’ve existed if men hadn’t wanted to fly. So much for the realists!

2. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance yes. Yes we should be able to walk around nude & leave our doors unlocked & our wallets lying around in the house. And we do.
In olden times, no one locked their doors. Did we have a problem? I’ve heard some towns/villages/colonies still do that!
In my house, I leave my wallet lying around. By God’s grace, the maid doesn’t steal anything. I’m trying to illustrate that just like stealing happens, the opposite also happens. So having faith & encouraging trust are equally important.
Nudism isn’t a problem. Go to Goa. Lounge on the beaches. Take in the nude breasts. There’s no stopping you. Just don’t rape. I was in Goa & I took in the sights smilingly. I didn’t rape anyone. I didn’t even feel like raping anyone. I didn’t want to touch or pass a comment. I may have wanted to compliment a few of them, but that’s not the same thing as pawing.

3. Take it from a man. Men like looking at women. Period. A figure hugging churidar-kurta is as ogle-able as a bikini.

4. Women who wear shorts/skirts outside the house definitely wear them inside the house.

5. Zulm sehna bhi gunaah hai. Opting to take care of yourself, like IHM suggested, could be carrying pepper spray, car keys, learning karate etc. Not hiding behind ghunghats & burqhas!

6. You think modesty avoids problems? Where do most of the rapes happen? In naked urban India or in fully clothed rural India?
Was Phoolan Devi wearing a little black number when she was raped? Was Banwari Devi?
What was the 17 year old college girl that was raped by constable sunil more on Marine Drive wearing???
Boss… Living in fear will not solve the problem. Locking up the goons will solve half the problem. Giving them an education will help solve the problem. Making society more open & sex more acceptable (& accessible) will solve the problem.

7. IHM… The ultra-feminist in you misread the poor man. He was not going to pass a comment at the doctor’s offending blouse. He wanted to ask her to cover up, but was scared because of sexual harassment laws that are biased towards women. Maybe they should be that way, but that doesn’t take away the fact that they’re currently biased.

This desire to keep men well behaved is not very different from the male desire to keep women well behaved.

I take offence at your claim that it’s the fear of punishment that keeps men well behaved. If that were true sunil more wouldn’t have raped the young college kid! He was a lawkeeper. He knew the law!!! Your logic is flawed. The problem is deeper than that.

I don’t have statistics on this, but is the %age of rape lower in more sexually permissive societies? That could possibly be one part of the answer… one part only.

And if it is, doesn’t that again mean, that it’s the liberal, idealistic thought that solutions lie with, instead of conservative regressive thought?

 

I understand why I was wrong..Good day to all…

Why/why not should women dress modestly/provocatively?

Miss A : Hey hey,read what IHM has written about so called provocative dressing

Miss B: Yeah,I read it,she is talking about an idealistic society,where everybody is mature and is aware of one own responsibility.Idealism is good,but reality and practicality is different.

Miss A :Can you expand?

Miss B: Yup..See,she is right when she says that ‘She does not invite it’..But in a multicultural and multifaceted society,how can you expect everybody to belive in your version of right?

Miss A :I agree,everybody is free to have their own opinion and that is what my point is about.Women are individuals and they should be free to choose what they wear and how they carry themselves.

Miss B: Any woman should be able to wear what she wants anywhere, and for that matter, so should men, but if we go by that ideology, then nudism should be perfectly acceptable in all spheres of society too. We should all be able to keep our doors unlocked when we leave home and also to keep our valuables on the table unattended while we nip to the toilet in a busy cafe too.However, human nature is unpredictable and thus we must always be on our guard. “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”

Miss A : I agree,women who dare to break the so called norms should be prepared to face the consequencies of the effect that the dressing will bring-for instance eve teasing (yeah,I know I got into ‘blame the victim’ theory) But I still stand by what I said,women are free to wear what they like . If you don’t like it,don’t look at it.

Miss B: You messed it,In fact men like to look at such women who reveal their assets,who make private things public.

Miss A : Women don’t dress to please men,they dress to please themselves.

Miss B: Ha ha,if that was they case,why don’t they wear such revealing dress inside their house and in front of family alone ? When she wears it to public,the message is simple-that she feels good being looked at,maybe by men or maybe by women. Isn’t this ‘feel good’ thing called attention seeker?

Miss A : Oh well,some women like attention,but that doesn’t mean you can go and touch her.. Revealing dress is not a invitation for rape or abuse..

Miss B: Tell me are you offended if somebody pass comment on you while you walk down the street..

Miss A : Hell yes,I hate it.

Miss B: So tell me why do you dress in a way that will attract comments.?

Miss A :Passing comments is his problem,not mine.

Miss B: Agreed,but why do you get offended at somebody else’s comment if you feel you are right?

Miss A : ***Silence..***

Miss B: Tell me why you women want to portray yourself as sexual objects while you go on 40 km essays on asking men to stop viewing women as sexual objects?When you yourself feel and is proud of being a sexual object,why do you complain about others looking at you through such glasses..?

Miss A : See,I don’t like others looking at me as a sexual object,so I dress modestly..But modestly is subjective.What is modest to me needn’t be to another person and what is immodest to me,maybe modest to the next person.So we can’t generalize.If somebody likes to dress in a particular way,she should be free to do so.

Miss B: Tell me something,when women know that there are some sick devilish men out there in the society,should she opt to take care herself by dressing modestly,or should she go around enrolling all eve teasers to mental asylum..Tell me which of the two choices is practical?

Miss A :Taking preventive measures is practical and feasible.But well,your logic is stupid bcoz in that case,wonder how men rape 18 month old babies and 89 years old grannies? Is diapers and sluggish clothes provocative?and you think women are free from all such harassments in places like Saudi and Afghan??**rolls eyes**

Miss B: You get my point..rape is about control and not about sex.When a baby or a granny is raped,it is all about overpowering and controlling rather than sexuality. So,no matter how you dress,you are prone to such dangers..But what is wrong in taking care?

Miss A :You are asking me to shut down myself in my room so that perverts may roam around freely in the streets uh? To accept that dressing is a moral issue is to accept this: a woman must not tempt a man. We focus on Adam eating the apple because Eve gave it to him. We don’t focus on Adam’s responsibility, on why he did not say no.

Miss B: No,thatz not my point. We are a society and we have norms and cultural barriers .Your freedom ends where mine starts.Men are like that they will keep drooling over public display or private parts..

Miss A : Shame on men who are proud to declare that they are so weak enough not to control their libidos..And Oh,please don’t talk about culture.. Rape and incest and sexual abuse of children are not our culture, even though they happen all the time.I am sick of men and women who, while holding their imported cellphones and driving their imported cars, say that women should conform to certain gender roles so as to preserve our “real” culture.

Miss B: Yes,I am aware of the double faceted hypocrisy. I agree that society should provide a safe environment for all its citizens and not punish women for the few criminal men who can nor control their urges. But then again, how can government take care of each and every single citizen in the country?We have our share of responsibility..The bottom line is that in public some modesty is required to avoid problems.

Miss A : Any man who takes offence at women’s clothing should reassess his ideas. Have your opinion, but leave it at that. Perhaps if these men cannot control themselves then they should not be allowed out on the street. Moreover,it is his responsibility to act as a reasonable and decent human being. Rather than impose dress codes for women, I’d propose blindfolds for hypersensitive men.

Miss B: I completely agree with you that women are not responsible for crimes committed on them and I agree with the ‘She did not ask for it’ theory.But in our real life.theories have less importance than practicals..I agree that as far as the dress code is concerned, the problem is the uneducated and ignorant observers not the dresser. Having said that, a person cannot but be mindful since there are just too many uneducated and ignorant people out there.So,it your choice whether you choose to be daring and outgo these vultures..But trust me,it is better to take care..“The stronger sex is actually the weaker sex because of it’s weakness for the weaker sex.”

Miss A : I am going for a tea break…phew…..