Ayodhya verdict… I’m loving it…
Long since I blogged..As Dhiren puts it,i’ve been itching to write since days..But tight schedules at home and college,yeah same old story….
The Ayodhya verdict made me have a great time..I am way too long away from understanding it completely,nor am I interested in it…Damn the masjid and temple at Ayodhya,I have plenty of both around me…But cannot stop myself from making a rant on why I’m loving the present verdict..
1. I thought Lord Rama is a legend,somone whom people worship for the just person he was ,someone whom all Indians revered..But now the verdict tells me that he was only one among the millions and zillions of people in India,who was born,whose birth was recorded just a hundred years ago,and that too on a bed particularly beneath the dome of the masjid…Interesting..Right under the dome?Very interesting…
2. The verdict tells me that even if the masjid was still there,we would ahve had to demolish it and divide the land into three,as the birthplace is right under the dome,no matter if the masjid exists or not…Yeah,its better that BJP and RSS did the civil works 18 years ago so that we don’t have to spent money on demolishing a 400 year old one today…
3. I read that masjid was built after demolishing a temple.Maybe it is true,maybe it is false..Why not allot the land half-half..Why 2/3 and 1/3 ? Fair enough for both sides..Both parties can pray can lead the world by example,”See how united we are with our ‘Unity in Diversity”..Well,now on what grounds are the saffron going to supreme court?
ROFL,my eyes just got locked on the news that ‘ A significant step,says BJP- RSS urges muslims to give up their share of the area“..Interesting…
4 . I read ‘this is only civil case verdict,criminal case against Advani,Uma and so are on the roll”..Duh,what was their crime? Afterall,they did social work,so that we don’t have to spent money demolishing the masjid now..
5.In malayalam,we have a saying ‘Mannum chaari ninnavan,pennum kondu poyi’,implying,the one who stood leaning the pillar took away the bride.. I am wondering why VHP,a late comer in the case was alloted land..
6. I am planning to place a Quran in the middle,’sreekovil’ of my nearby temple,at the darkness of night,like a coward,so that after some 60+ years ,people around here was win the verdict that ‘Since Quran was there since 60 years,give land to muslims so that they can pray there ‘.Intersting…Well,don’t laugh at me..The same happened here too right? Some fellow placed the idol inside the masjid in 1949,and now those elements have won..Cool system…
7 . Mulayam says ‘Muslims feel cheated”..lol,he himself feels low,for no muslim raised sound made issues regarding the verdict..So he is trying hard to pour poison and create trouble so that so muslim in some part of teh counrty will do some crime and the whole country can sing about it..Sorry Mr Mulayam,we have grown up, (I guess) Please go To Pakistan and make trouble there..They have less news these days..
8. Actually,I have an eye on a property in Cochin city..I am planning to make a statement that Prophet Muhammed landed here in torpedo,and thus I have the claim to make a building there,to pray or whatever…Well,who knows,maybe I will get a favorable verdict..Afterall,it is a matter of my ‘faith’…I thought that the court is meant to go by evidence,but that sin’t the case anymore..
9. People tell ‘Let go the land and masjid,who cares about it’..Err,I care the least about Ayodhya as a place in particular..But I heard that there are 1000 + such similar disputes going on in the country..Many temples have been put down,many masjids have been out down..Will this verict have an effect on their course?And what if Wakf Board,who held the land for last 400 years were alloted 2/3 of land?..Would you taken the satnd ‘We are making our hearts bigger,for we are going to give you the remaining 1/3″
10. As Justice Khan rightly said,it is time for muslims to prove and enlighten others of what Islam teaches them..Don’t move around cutting hands or chopping heads of people,for one should have better things in life to do in the name of religion..And all you restless people out there,come to my hometown,I will show you how we maintain a beautiful mandir and masjid acroos one single compound wall..Hell will bored people who have nothing to do in life,except creat trouble and more hell with people who have nothing better in life to do,other than listening to and following such radical elements..
But,to be honest,I adore this verdict,for it poured ice- cold water over all those boiling hearts who were waiting to jump into the scene..What is it that I liked the most about this verdict ?..That it gave no scope for criminal elements to make trouble and create a hungama.. Everybody was waiting for strikes,marches, bla bla bla,but the judges disappointed them..Poor ones,they might have got really upset for all extreme elements would have bee waiting with their bags ready to stir trouble the day and next of verdict..Thanks to the three judges…For everyone is confused whether they have won or lost and that was the sole beauty of the verdict,as far as my silly stupid brain perceives it..
In contrast, the old city area of Lucknow, long considered communally sensitive, appeared businesslike on Friday. There is ennui with the seemingly interminable legal battle over the Ayodhya title suit, a feeling underlined by Rafat Khan (40), who said, “We’ve to look forward. Our children have to study and make a career. We have to do business. That’s all we need now.” The police presence outside the mosque left him bemused. “What does the administration fear? This is not 1992. It’s the 21st century. We want drinking water and electricity, not mosque or temple.” Read more
p.s : I wonder if muslims and hindus praying there will get any peace of mind,as is the case with a place of worship… Religion is for us to have a peace of mind,but is that the case anymore? Stop questioning if Ram was real or Mythology,for it is matter of faith..Stop pondering over Prophet Muhammad’s number of wives..Stop fighitng over Barber who have become molecules centuries ago. Please build a small and cute temple and a masjid and finish off the matter..Don’t go for appeal and drag the case for another century,so that your grandkids will fight your case…Please don’t inject the poison of communalism onto our generation..Please take it with you when you leave this earth…India is the most beautiful place on earth.Please let us live peacefully.
Nimmy's Experiment with Blogging 
ohh the Wakf board is going to appeal in Supreme Court so that is another 20 years till someone gets to lay a brick there 🙂
I hope SC says build a hospital or school there.
Both parties are going to SC 🙂
How you doing Reema…Advance Pooja wishes…
You know long ago, half of India was tricked by the politicians… thankfully the major have grown out smarter… no one really cares… everyone is rather more interested in their bread winning work… !!
Once bitten twice shy… as Smitha put it… the media was most disappointed that nothing happened as a reaction… 😦 they just have nothing to report these days !
🙂
Honestly,nobody really cares,but these politicians will not let us forget either…
Point 6 and 7 are wrong. Idols were placed as people started believing that it was the ‘exact’ birthplace of Ram. Before that people used to believe the whole site as the birthplace, not a specific place on the site. So it is not the same as placing the idols in a temple. Hindus and Muslims both used to offer prayers there till 1857.
Mulayam is just trying to woo the muslim not agitate voters as the previous Lok Sabha elections proved that Congress had started gaining their faith.
Perhaps this is not a big issue for you as you’re among the ones who have ‘move ahead’ but I come from around the place where the dispute is going on.
Hello Jahanpanah,
Welcome here 🙂
I am sure of your claim that “Idols were placed as people started believing that it was the ‘exact’ birthplace of Ram” bcoz I don’t know more about it..I know that it was a mob that placed the idol there..I am not arguing about masjid and temple,but about how interesting is it that both the central dome and birth place coincide.. Maybe it is true,I don’t know,all I said is ,”Its interesting”..
For the sake of curiosity,if you get time,pls share with us how the ‘exact’ place was determined..Don’t you think it was rather a strategic move than one based on belief…
Keep coming..Good day..
Hmm… as far as I know the exact place was determined purely based on the faith and belief and I don’t think it was a strategic move to claim the property because that couldn’t be, going by the law. The High Court has accepted the place to be the birth place based on the same faith and belief.
You can call me anything but still I go by this verdict even if few things are objectionable. 🙂
This is not just another temple we are talking about. It is about the birth place of Ram. Yes, Lord Ram. Moreover, as per HC’s verdict the building destroyed was not mosque, also there was an older existing temple on the disputed site.
” I don’t think it was a strategic move to claim the property because that couldn’t be, going by the law.”
🙂 By this I meant that such a claim will make sure that the masjid is brought down..If one claim Ram lalla or said spots within the courtyard,they will get land for temple,but the masjid will remain..So the only way to bring down the masjid is to claim that its central dome.portion is what we want 🙂
“You can call me anything ”
🙂 why should I call you w;anything’??If that was the case,you too could have callled me the same..We are just talking here..
“Moreover, as per HC’s verdict the building destroyed was not mosque, also there was an older existing temple on the disputed site.”
Temple existed,masjid too existed for 500 years,so why can’t we talk about having both of them together,side by side,again…
I’m fine with temple and mosque both. However I would prefer only temple because such an arrangement of having mosque on the revered Hindu places like in Varanasi (the original Kashi Vishwanath Temple site was demolished by Aurangzeb to build a mosque there, a new temple came beside it) etc. has been too far fetched. Why can’t Hindus have something of their own.
🙂 “Why can’t Hindus have something of their own.”
I don’t know what to say.. Since we are talking about Lord Ram here,I agree to your point,a sacred place.. Is Kashi sacred? Is there a masjid there now?I have no GK of all this…
Wikipedia has something on Kashi Vishwanath Temple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashi_Vishwanath_Temple
🙂 Enjoy.
Great post Nimmy.
“But,to be honest,I adore this verdict,for it poured ice- cold water “
But,to be honest,I adore this post more than the verdict…
i would prefer a 50-50 settlement OR building a social service structure in that location like a Hospital or College or School.
Hi IP..Thanks for your kind words..To me,the post was not indeed a good one,for it was rather emotional ,which I hate to become as a blogger..
Yeah,even I would vote for 50-50 settlement..
Point No 1 -Pure sarcasm…to me it is in bad taste….In hinduism, there is a belief, at times of necessity, GOD will come to earth as an avatar….RAM is one such avatar….
Point No 2- i am also not clear , but wanted to raise –in the sense, would the same verdict would be given had the babi masjid was not demolished…all news channel echoed before the verdict that this is only a title suit….so to me, the judges should not say, had the Masjid was there, the verdict would have been different….
Point No 6 and 9—well to remove all such doubts, legislation has already been passed in 1993 regarding place of worship that except Babri Masjid, status quo will be maintained as on 1947….
Point no 10- yes it is true the verdict gave no room for riots….many felt that the verdict is not delievered based on law….i feel may be because of this reason….
Sunder,there is no sarcasm intented,and if there is any,it is at the verdict,not at somebody’s belief.. I am very much aware of 10 avatars God had taken on earth,Kalki being the last I think.. So there no qstn of me pointing fingers at somebody’s belief..I am talking about what 3 judges said..
Except a handful,I doubt how many hindus will bother to believe that Lord Ram was born right under the dome…
Good day!This was a really splendid subject!
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An other perspective >>>> The Babri Mosque verdict poses some exceptionally interesting legal propositions, which might interest to the people of Lahore, as they surely would the people of Ayodhia. Let us stick to history, and let us stick to the facts of the case. Religion has no place in the argument >>>>> more at http://faithforum.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/rama-of-ayodhia/
Nimmy, I do not agree with some of the points you have listed.
However, one point I most definitely do agree with, is that it is time to move on. And I think that most Indians are ready to move on.
In the circumstances, this is the best verdict that could have been given. I hope that none of the parties appeals to the SC.
Most Indians- other than the TV news channel anchors who insist on shouting and screeching at the top of their lungs against the verdict. 🙂
* Re: Shri Ram being born right under the dome-
Most Hindus believe that the temple which stood there in the memory of his birthplace (in an earlier time) was razed by invaders on purpose to erect a mosque there.
Can they be blamed for believing this, when so many Hindu temples elsewhere in India were destroyed and mosques built on those sites by invaders?
* Re: Hindus appealing to the Supreme Court-
Neither the RSS, VHP, nor the BJP are going to appeal to the SC.
Only the Hindu Mahasabha, which represents only a small number of Hindus has declared that it will appeal.
“Neither the RSS, VHP, nor the BJP are going to appeal to the SC”
🙂 true,the rest have took a strategic position .. “RSS urges Muslims to give up their share of the area “
“new BJP President Nitin Gadkari on Thursday said the Ram temple in Ayodhya is its soul and appealed to the Muslims to adopt a “generous” attitude by giving up their claim on the disputed site. ”
..
But it was Mahasabha alone who a litigant in the case,the rest joined for political reasons..So,mahasabha going to SC means ,the litigant is going..
“Can they be blamed for believing this, ” No at all..I have told that the claim maybe true,for invaders are not angels and have done many crimes to Indians…Are you saying that the whole land should go to temple?
I don’t know what is right and wrong..I feel that temple and masjid,both should come up there..Masjid was there was 400 yrs..Well,if one wants to build temple in 2.77 acres of land ,I have nothing to say..Maybe a handful will find peace in praying there…
It is interesting that a violent mob put down a building and after 60 years,making an order in fvaour of the criminals,at the same time,asking the other party to keep silent..
Actually, as I understand it, neither the Hindu Mahasabha nor RSS/VHP/BJP are one of the litigants in this case. When they say that they will/ will not appeal, I take it to mean that they are/ are not in favour of appealing to the SC.
The litigant on behalf of Ram Lalla is the Ram Janma Bhoomi Nyas/ Trust. Nritya Gopaldas Maharaj, thought to be close to the VHP is the president of Ram Janam Bhoomi trust. He belongs to the Chhotichhavani Akhara in Ayodhya.
No I am not saying that I feel the whole land should go for the temple. I personally feel that in the present situation this is the best verdict the court could have given.
“neither the Hindu Mahasabha nor RSS/VHP/BJP are one of the litigants in this case.”
I don’t know,thatz not the way I understood it…
Manju,this verdict is not wrong,but it is not right either…Why don’t you notice that the verdict talks nothing about the crime these guys did ,I mean there is not even condemnation of the vandalism of demolition of masjid,forget punishing the goons who did it..
Faith and logic doesn’t go together,i know..But we are talking about law,judges and judiciary here..I don’t mean to argue,nor am i interested in temple or masjid,but the verdict is far from being fair…
Nimmy, I don’t know all the legal points, but as Solilo mentioned, legally Ram Lalla is considered an individual, also a minor. The Ramjanmabhoomi Trust represents him.
The Hindu organisations are not legally litigants- but of course that does not mean they have no influence, or that they are not interested. They certainly are!
Re: the criminal case- that is separate from this civil case. We may feel that they are linked- but in the eyes of the law they are separate.
Even if two thirds of the land is awarded to Hindu litigants in the civil case, it is possible that punishments will be given in the criminal case of Babri demolition.
However, it is also possible that the criminal case may go on for years more, and punishments not awarded in the near future….
I agree with Manju here.
Though I don’t support this verdict (as if anyone cares), as Manju mentioned, we cannot club both here. One is a criminal case and other civil case and both are separate in the eyes of law. Of course it’s another matter that the verdict on the criminal case will come after gazillion years.
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Those who are saying it is a great/best verdict would have sang a very different tune had 2/3 part went to the Muslims instead of Hindus.
Exactly! the situation is calm because the Orange brigade didn’t get anything to mislead people.
Hi dear…
Gald to hear from you after a long time..How is peanut…Love.. ((hugs))
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/73225/sec_id/73225
Sri that’s good thing you pointed out. Unfortunately the national media has become so biased that it omits these news. The problem of the Bangladeshi immigrants has been plaguing India since ages and more than 1.5 crores of illegal immigrants are living in the country (that’s the official record). They do nothing but to increase the number of poors in the country thus hindrance to the growth and development and are threat to the law and order situation of the country.
Since India has started giving the UID card I’m more worried now. How to ensure that only the citizens of the country get this. I know this wont be possible. Bangladeshi immigrants had been getting rashan cards etc. from the beginning due to the political pressure and now they’ll get the benefit of these new facilities too which are only for the citizens of India. 😦
If the situation remains so we’ll be seeing the Kashmir type freedom movement in the North Eastern states as well.
I mentioned this Deganga because many Hindus are living in a state of denial, not that this will wake up. One way to face a problem is to think that there is no problem at all; because even a bit of rational thinking frightens them; what if this is true.
Look at the act of Historians: They more or less have succeeded in concealing Historical facts; they even succeeded in to creating grandeur of Islamic rule suggesting that it is very peaceful with out any conflict and all living in harmony. They turned Islamic bigots in to icons of tolerance. The result is fiction like Jodhaa Akbar and Tippu Sultan.
Now media is spinning its own web. Their enlightened opinion is that the responsibility of secularism and peaceful co-existence solely rests with Hindus; in this regard they censor all the news.
The result of this censoring is creation of urban myth: VHP and Bajrangadal are responsible for every thing that is not well in this country. Look at some Hindus who were implying that they were ready to unleash violence. Where did they get evidence? From media.
The last five major communal flash points were started by Muslims. Criticizing this wonderful peaceful community has its risks and many found out too.
When media willingly conceals these, obviously Hindus think there is unrest because of Hindu extremists. Out put is based on input.
Much worse, many Hindus think that all religions are same.
God knows what is necessary to open their eyes to the irrefutable fact that Islam does not recognize any religion at all; it abrogates all religions. If at all Non Muslims want to exist, they should be in a state of subjugation like playing Jizya and accepting other humiliating conditions; just Non Muslims in present day Islamic world are facing officially or non officially. This is100% Islamic tolerance towards others.
Some, who knew about Islam, make wrong choices like concentrating on temples i.e. Ayodhya issue.
If they construct a temple in Ayodhya, will all the problems get solved? Hindus badly need some wisdom.
May be some one should tell Rahul Gandhi to read from the website of Jamaat Islami-e-Hind.
http://www.jamaateislamihind.org/index.php?do=category&id=124&blockid=31
(Read the last paragraph.)
The following is a good one too, a presage to what is to take place.
http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/the-real-state-of-affairs-of-minority-hindus-in-west-bengal-just-before-a-muslim-state-there/
@Solilo
I reckon you people come from a very liberal backgrounds having modern outlook for everything. Most of you might be unaware of the ground realities or know about them through the media only which always filters the news. Of course I’m not surprised by your stance.
BTW, didn’t you read the post carefully where in the point 7 it is clearly indicated who was misleading the people.
Jahanpanah, in an argument, people have different opinions. There is no need to bring my family background here. Yes, I didn’t have a conservative upbringing and I’m very proud of it. I got the freedom to think and form my own opinion rather than being fed on age old beliefs. I could take what I like and discard outdated concepts. I think I’m very lucky that way. 🙂
Now if we delve on this further and go back to 1853 then of course none of us can claim to know the ground reality. All of us get our news through books, media and incidents closer home. Who exactly knows the ground reality?
I am a Defence officer’s daughter and lived in the troubled Kashmir valley. Do you think I should tell all civilians and their children to ‘eff off’ with their opinion on the valley? Do you think only the people who live there or experienced terrorist attacks should speak? So let us not talk about knowledge of ground reality.
Upbringing and family background has no importance in any debate. Yes, our opinion may vary depending on how we infer. I don’t blame you either. Thanks.
Oh btw thanks for the link to your blog on PFC. Interesting reviews. 🙂
Yes upbringing has no importance in any debate but they do mold ones personality and behaviour bringing the subjectivity in the opinions as opposite to objectivity. One’s (mine here) inference may be wrong I admit.
And, BTW I have also formed my opinion based on what I have observed and felt but as opposite to you my faith and belief in the old traditions and concepts have been reinforced. No one forced me to retain them either. 🙂
And the ‘secularists’ who are having different tone at present would have kept silence because they only believe in one way ‘secularism’.
Jahanpanah, Tussi great ho. You mean to say that you are not secular.
Well! it’s really sad that in the eyes of the law (and some people), the deity (lalla virajman) is an individual. If only all individuals were treated like one.
As far as I know as per law a diety can be treated as an individual.
Yes, I’m not secular if that’s what my statement makes me look like. I however, would have supported to renounce the land to the other party had there been a temple build by Shivaji on a land known to be birth place of Prophet. I think it’s called respecting other people’s religious sentiments.
Well said Nimmy By this verdict based on ‘faith’ and fear than on logic and Law Indian legal system walked few steps backwards.I am hoping that Supreme Court will stay it and then quash it Will soon write a post on this
Yeah,I too hope that a fair verdict will come from SC,well,who knows if that will happen in our lifetime 🙂
It was a signpost of foreign aggression on hindu holy land, needed to be demolished.
I wouldnt mind hospital being built, but muslims are NOT magnanimous to be secular, so I INSIST that temple be built, just to show power.
I wuld personally built a dance bar there, chandni bar and have dancing girls.
Lord ram lalla virajman was not born in ayodhya in that particular place, he was born in mecca, so gimme land to build temple there.
Hi Kattarvaadi, Welcome here 🙂
Cool idea of building a dance bar..Maybe we could unite and build a magnificent dance bar spread across 2.77 acres…We could include casino and etc too…
About mecca,pls file a case,maybe you would win after 60 yrs or so…We never know 🙂
“muslims are NOT magnanimous to be secular” Expand that if you don’t mind….
I don’t pot for hospitl or school on as first choice.My choice is BOTH TEMPLE AND MASJID…
Keep coming…
First NO non-muslims can practise their religion in saudi, thats why I said ram lalla was born in mecca, gimme land.
Muslims are NOT magnanimous to be secular. Lotsss of tolerant people said, lets build hospital, school, library, multi-religious prayer hall, if the muslims were really secular ad magnanimous, they would agree to this, secular shrine. NOPE, they INSIST on mosque, so I INSIST on temple.
personally I would like a dance bar with burkha clad women dancing. !!!!!!!
🙂 You may find such bars,well maybe not in parda,but of course arabic women,plenty enough in Dubai ,Bahrain and like,and maybe secretly in Saudi too..wish you good luck ,may you fulfill your dream in near future…
I found the judgment satisfactory.
And I agree, “it poured ice- cold water over all those boiling hearts who were waiting to jump into the scene”.
I am glad if it is true that young people today are not showing much interest in this case.
IHM, If it was a political compromise out side the court it can be accepted as a give up of the rights to the place by wakf Board. But a Court which should uphold the law doing such a compromise is unheard for.That is why many are saying that this a very bad precedent.
http://sahmatnews.blogspot.com/2010/10/statement-on-ayodhya-verdict.html
http://www.sahmat.org/2882003.html
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2010/10/interview-with-justice-rajindar-sachar.html
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2010/10/interview-with-rajeev-dhavan-on-ayodhya.html
Young people today don’t show interest in particularly anything not directly related to them. Whether this apathy is good or bad that depends.
Most of the hindus wouldn’t have objected for 50 50 decision and the most important thing is maintaining peace not that who is getting 2/3 and who is getting 1/3.
well written
verdict is excellent that is reason today we have peace.
India is full of fool people who will get ready to kill or die on the name of religion.
Those who are using the word ‘peace’ should really know what is peace. In what sense, context, they are using this word, do they have any idea?
Their opinions in the from of comments suggest that, if there are no communal riots, it is peace.
But, this peace is at the best temporary.
No body wants violence or wants to see people suffer from violence. But this should not stop people from asking whether this peace is sustainable in the long run.
One should know what peace means in other frames of reference too. If they do search, they will find that how much damage this verdict will do to Hindus. In fact either way, the verdict has its implications; but if Hindus do not go ahead with construction of temple, I am not saying that hand over the site to Muslims for Mosque, this serves their cause very well. But one has to recognize what is important: a temple or nation.
I guess the temples and mosques are slowly moving out of being the economic centers that they used to be, so people might be fighting elsewhere now! I am convinced that as long as there are people, they create some sort of division between them and fight! None of the five sense animals do that, strangely. BTW, I am tagging you on the topic “My top three movies of all time” – Pls do if you find time 🙂
Destination Infinity
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Long time no posts? Hope all is ok?
Hi Nimmy,
Just read your blog first time. I cant tell you how glad I am to see like minded people on this space. Whatever you have written here are exactyly my thoughts for this Verdict.
”Why to make such hue and cry over it, just go and pray .. if thats what you want ”
I feel sick to the core looking at such incidents happening in the world, spcifically in India. Hopefully the next generation, made by us, will be better and care less about the past of Temples and Mosques and more about the future of the Country and their own.
Amen